Discover the invisible systems in life sciences facilities that drive sustainability, from HVAC to water purification, with insights from Genesis AEC.
About this episode
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What if the biggest opportunities for sustainability aren't the things we're seeing,
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but the ones that we don't? Stay tuned to discover what I'm talking
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about in this episode of the Green New Perspective podcast.
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Hey friends, you're watching the fresh episode of the Green New Perspective podcast. If you're
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watching our show regularly, then you know that we'll bring you information
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from the future tech industries and we'll talk about marketing strategies that are fueling
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growth in this space. The most powerful sustainability upgrades are probably
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the ones you'll never see. They're hidden in the systems that keep our buildings
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running. And that's where my today's guests, Stephen Hall and Nate Bolton from Genesis AEC,
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are making change. When we think about sustainability, we usually picture
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EVs, solar panels, wind turbines. So, the things that we're seeing,
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but for Nathan Bolton, the real impact happens behind the walls and under our floors. Genesis AEC,
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the company we are dedicating this episode to, is reimagining how life sciences spaces are built to
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be more efficient, resilient, and sustainable. So, join the conversation to learn how they're
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driving the change from the inside out, I guess. So, for starters,
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I always let our guests introduce themselves and the company we're dedicating this episode to. So,
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Stephen, can you start by by giving us an overview of what Genesis is and the work that you do and
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then Nate, you can continue with your role within the company. Hello, my name is Stephen Hall and I'm
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the chief process engineer at Genesis AEC. We are an engineering and construction company based in
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the Philadelphia and Boston areas in the US. And what we do primarily is to design and construct
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facilities for the life science industry such as cell therapy, active pharmaceutical ingredients,
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oral solid dosage uh products and my role in the company is to oversee process engineering aspects
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and the chemical engineer by training and I've been in this industry for um
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throughout my entire career. Nate Bolton um also with Genesis obviously and I am on the mechanical
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engineering side. So I help with the HVAC design um in implementation for the facilities that uh
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Stephen had talked about. Stephen, why do you see facilities the often invisible systems like water
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and energy as one of the most powerful levers for sustainability? In any kind of a building, the
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bones of the building are these invisible systems such as steam, chilled water, especially the
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air conditioning systems and also the utilities that feed into the process. Water for injection
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and pure steam. These are hidden from the uh basic fabric of the building. when you walk through the
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building, you don't really see or understand that they're there just like in your house. But
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they're they're critical systems for ensuring stewardship of our of our energy
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and conservation of energy, heat, cooling, and even carbon footprint. And Nate, when we talk
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about this well sustainability conversation, we were just mentioning the invisible stuff,
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which means that we often focus on the visible stuff like let's say solar or EVs. So why is
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this behind the scenes let's say infrastructure just as critical? Can you explain that for our
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audience? So it's it's actually a it's sort of a double double stack. So your visible systems,
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your solar, your wind power, your things like that, those are providing the energy to drive
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the systems in your facility. So if you have inefficient systems or less sustainable systems,
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you need more of those visible systems in order to be able to power what's in your building. So the
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invisible systems that are in your building, if you're able to sustainably utilize those, increase
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the efficiency, decrease your overall usage, then you need less of the visible systems in order to
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be able to drive it. So, it's a win-win on both sides by decreasing the requirements of the
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building, but also decreasing the requirements of the visible systems and also arguably some of the
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more expensive systems that drive your building. I could see us having a lot of energy recovery
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in the in the invisible systems where waste heat is utilized to preheat boiler feed water for an
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example. And Nate, I'm sure you have some other thoughts on that. Yeah, absolutely. the the uh
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I I think probably one of the biggest things, you know, and this kind of segus into some of
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the other segments, but one of the biggest things in all industries, not just pharma,
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is really identifying opportunities for for we'll call it like firstline reductions. You know,
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in pharma, one of our biggest uses is air flow and the amount of conditioned air that's required in
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any given space, whether it's a lab space, whether it's an office space, whether it's, you know,
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some other use space. And the more you're able to reduce your airflow required in that space,
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the more you're going to save and the more sustainable you're going to be able to create
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a system that kind of flows downhill from there. So utilizing that reduction first and foremost is
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is probably one of the the biggest opportunities to to be sustainable prior to you know adding in
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other relatively expensive or complex systems for energy recovery which is certainly you know the
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the the next thing that you want to do. And then finally you know any of the efficiency pickups
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that you can you can gain by using just simple you know more efficient equipment itself. So
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the equivalent of like energy star for facility systems. It's interesting you brought up airflow
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since that's one of the huge energy uh hogs in in life sciences. And I think one of the things that
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we've learned recently is that careful control of humidity and temperature set points in the spaces
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that are responsive to the outside air humidity can make a huge difference in the amount of
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energy that's used in those systems because we as humans our comfort level is based not only on the
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sensible temperature in the space but also the relative humidity. So when the relative humidity
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is higher, we can feel comfortable with a lower temperature in the space and vice versa. And by
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by using active automation and algorithms, we can optimize the amount of energy that's used to heat
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and cool those spaces without changing the air flow, which is sort of fixed in our environment.
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And what would you say is one let's say common m misconception companies have when it comes
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to making the systems more sustainable? One of the misconceptions that that we're running into,
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it's not really a misconception, but it's a a a disconnect between the top management of the
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major companies and the engineers that are actually working in the facilities who are
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tasked with implementing grandiose objectives for sustainability. Because what's pitched in
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the corporate world is carbon net zero carbon and and and reduction of water consumption etc which
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don't always match with the technical capabilities or financial wherewithal of the individual plants
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and and what their bottom lines allow. So what what we're seeing is the plant engineers are
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responding to these demands without a fully let's say pushing back on what's realistic and they will
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make decisions that are based on meeting uh the the the lofty goals and and those decisions may
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not be the most sustainable actions that they could be taking. How to deal with those kind of
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challenges? to people problem primarily. Can you tell us more about the PharmaWater Pro and why
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it matters? What PharmaWater Pro does is analyze water systems for during the design for water
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purification for our pharmaceutical facilities. What we found is that there's a commonality across
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pretty much all of our clients. So that when they need purified water and to make that purified
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water, it's And there's certain technologies that can be used. Which one is the most appropriate for
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an individual system depends on factors like how much water is going to be consumed and what is the
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energy source for for heating and cooling. And what our platform does is take the those inputs
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into a model that we can quickly sort through the alternatives for them and and come out with
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the answers for which is the more sustainable technologies to use for pre-treatment and for
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water purification. The advantage of this having this platform is that we have a a stable set of
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assumptions that we can use. They can be modified on a case- by case basis, but it gives us a
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leg up. We don't have to reinvent the wheel every time. and and we're able to very very quickly do
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these assessments to to come to a preliminary and conceptual design basis um to build our
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detailed designs on. Can you give us an example where this approach or the tool itself change
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the way client made decisions around water systems? We have a client who currently uses
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multi effect distillation to make their water for injection or WFI. And by using our tool,
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we're able to show the advantage of switching that technology to a membranebased system. It's not
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obvious whether or not membrane or multi effect or vapor compression is the most economical because
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there's factors like maintenance costs and the life cycle of of of these technologies. You know,
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membranes wear out more quickly than stainless steel distillation units. But using the tool,
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we're able to take those factors into account, get the input from the client. How long do they want
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to run the system for? How much spare capacity do they need and show the differences in those
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consumptions. One thing I want to point out here is that in getting to net zero or carbon neutral,
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companies are relying on clean electricity. And that really isn't necessarily the case
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in the United States. If you look at the U energy maps across the country, what you
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find is that carbon content of electricity varies widely from place to place. And it's only if you
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have truly renewable uh electrical sources that the um carbon footprint of electricity
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is is lower than say using natural gas which isn't necessarily the um reality on the ground because
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you can say that you're buying electricity from the grid. So they tell you
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how many times you can resell it. But Nate, when we're talking about this energy side, do you have
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an example of a project that shows what's possible when facilities are reimagined for sustainability?
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Yeah, the I think the conversation around electrification is a is a huge piece. Um being
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able to Stephen's point as we transition away from fossil fuels being used on site um and being
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able to move to electrified systems, you're you're really starting to see a shift in how
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facilities utilize all of the equipment within the facility as well as their HVAC systems that
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that that drive that equipment to be a bit more sustainable but also to provide a lot more
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control. So a good example is is when companies use airsource heat pumps on the exterior of the
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their building to provide both heating and cooling simultaneously in some cases.
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That is a huge leg up and as opposed to using you know a chiller plant in one area of the building
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and then a gas fire heating plant in another area in building and in some cases they actually
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you know fight against each other. So those are the types of opportunities that we're seeing you
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know especially lately um you know and anytime we can see other opportunities for reduction
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probably the one the biggest one that we see most often is through controls you know being able to
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come into a facility and even if we don't do major capital project being able to say
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let's review your controls let's review your sequence of operations for how your building is
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operating how your equipment is operating um and being able to tweak that to a point where there's
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improvements to be made. You know, that's a very quick software fix on a very inexpensive system
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that returns, you know, immediately essentially. And that that payback oftent times can help drive
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those larger uh, you know, more more visible projects and more electrified projects for
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facilities to be more sustainable. And how does data and transparency help to build trust and
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accountability with the clients? Yeah, the data so the data is it's tough. So data is only as
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good as where the data comes from and it's only as good as the systems that you use to analyze it. So
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you know when we talk about data when we talk about controls and we say okay you know this
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facility or this school or this office building or this apartment building you know they have all
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of these unique control systems and they're all of these all of these uh these very expensive um
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controllers. you know, when you come in and you say, "Okay, when's the last time anyone's looked
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at these? When's the last time anyone's replaced the sensor? When's the last time anybody's uh, you
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know, kind of modified uh the the background software and the controls for it? Ultimately,
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that's what's going to determine, you know, the the data quality that that comes out of it. So,
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there's a a huge opportunity to be able to use data moving forward. um you know across the board.
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Every time somebody turns on a light switch, every time some a VAV box kicks on, every time a lab,
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you know, somebody walks into a lab space and it recognizes that there's occupancy, all of that is
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is good data as long as you can connect as as long as you can collect it accurately and then you can
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utilize it accurately with the software. Challenge though, Nate, that we've run into is data overload
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where one client is getting a lot of data in a form of monthly reports from their data
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acquisition system, but they don't have time to do anything with them and react. How do you see that
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going forward? Yeah, the the you know, kind of back to the that that the data quality software,
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you know, the same as the data quality itself is what is the right data that you should be using?
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what's the right data that you should be looking at. It's it's very similar to like business KPIs.
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You know, you could be measuring one thing, but that doesn't even remotely mean it's going to
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turn into something that you want it to. So, being able to know exactly the the information that you
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need and where it's coming from and then ensure the quality of that information that's going to
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determine, you know, what you're able to do in your facility and how you're able to improve
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upon whatever. So, you know, if you're if you have a goal, if you have a sustainability goal
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and you know, you want to make sure that you meet those sustainability goals, um it's very
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important to right off the bat understand what it is you're trying to measure and you're trying to
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to reach. Um and then identifying all of the pieces, all the data pieces that you're going to
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need in order to be able to get there. And how do you ensure that you're accurately tracking those
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data points on your way to success?
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Usually when I talk with with companies here in the podcast who are providing some sort of
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sustainable solution there are two camps when talk when we talk about their clients. We have
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the eager adopters and those who are worried about the cost. Um so how do you navigate that
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tension Stephen? That is a huge tension and cost is a major driver. You know the economics
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of everything that we do generally wins out. There are times when cost has become no barrier
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and companies have gone forward with projects that on a cost basis didn't make a lot of sense
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but they were achieving water consumption or wastewater reduction goals that they could check
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off in in terms of their achievements. But in general, what what we're seeing, what I'm seeing
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is uh aggressive uh objectives and goals at the beginning of the project and then when the
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costs come in, the the projects either die or morph into something that's much different
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than what they started out to be. It's not something that Genesis has a lot of control over.
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You know, it's it's our clients who are paying the bills not only for our fees, but also for the
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capital investment and operating costs for the systems and and ultimately it's totally up to them
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how they want to spend their money. And what kind of trade-offs do they face when when
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weighing cost against let's say carbon impact? trade-offs include not only the capital costs
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to to put it in, but the risk of changing their technology from where they are today because they
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can't accommodate business interruption that would be unexpected. So, it's important to
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be able to and I think Nate brought this point up before that. They don't want to be early adopters
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necessarily to take that risk of of a business interruption if the that the technology doesn't
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pan out the way they expect it to be. They also have to take short not shortcuts but
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they also have to tradeoffs between the optimal design and and what is more easily implemented
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into the systems. Nate, when with all of this in mind, how would you say you help clients to
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shift their view from compliance costs to strategic investment? Yeah, it's uh it's
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it's it's a very fine line. There's there's a lot of the compliance questions and trying
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to thread the needle between what's required and what's available is oftentimes difficult. Um, but
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that being said, you know, oftent times you can use some of those stringent requirements to your
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advantage when making the case for sustainability improvements. So, you know, great example is going
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back to the airflow reduction. You know, a lot of the air flow reduction in some of those systems,
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it actually helps increase quality because now you no longer have the potential for significant air
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movement in a space. um you know, you have the ability to better control the air and and thus,
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you know, the impact that it has on a given product at any given time and then as a result,
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you know, you're able to to potentially see a a better product or at least a higher higher
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quality process that leads to a better product in the future. So sometimes they they dovetail nicely
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um in terms of the requirements uh and you know the sustainability goals. Other times they're
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uh you know I don't want to say in in direct conflict conflict uh they don't
0:20:55.600,0:21:02.360
they don't dovetail very nicely. You know a good example is just the cleanliness requirements of
0:21:02.360,0:21:09.720
air. It's still not entirely agreed upon to what extent the air needs to be cleaned in any given
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facility. There's there's differences in in ISO classification and Europe is is trying to pull in
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different standards for their air classification. And so ultimately I think that if there can be a
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a marriage between you know what makes sense from a from a regulatory perspective and what is
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capable from you know a a reduction perspective I think you'll come to a much better place and
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a much better product at the end. And how does Genesis AEC communicate it sustainability story
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in a way that resonates with both clients and the broader market? Stephen,
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we try to do is to build case studies that that showcase the successes that we've had and we
0:21:53.960,0:22:03.160
we do those through our website and through a blog as well as um face-toface meetings with potential
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clients and explain uh pretty much as Nate has been doing uh today as to you know what kind
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of tradeoffs are are possible. posible and what what achievements can be made and Nate if you can
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imagine the facility of the future let's say 10 years from now what does it look like so I think
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that there's there's a a case for a industrial version of the passive house certification
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where we're able to really see these very very high efficiency designs not systems but designs
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that enable scientists and building owners to do very high quality work in very high quality
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spaces with again good data with good systems with facilities people who understand and are educated
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in the systems that they're trying to maintain and that everyone kind of has an eye you know
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every couple of weeks on the end goal of what it is that they're trying to do and how to do that in
0:23:03.200,0:23:09.360
a sustainable way. You know, I think when you look at it purely from a quarterly cost perspective,
0:23:09.360,0:23:15.280
you kind of lose out on your facility and you say, "Okay, well, you know, this facility can continue
0:23:15.280,0:23:20.520
to run the way it's running for another five years." And then oftent times that that kind of
0:23:20.520,0:23:25.600
drops off the question of, "Yeah, well, but should it?" you know, are you sacrificing something else
0:23:25.600,0:23:31.440
simply by u you know, trying to maintain your your cost efficiency in certain areas when
0:23:31.440,0:23:37.360
you know, if if you're able to spend a little bit more upfront for say, you know, better uh
0:23:37.360,0:23:42.080
you know, better facade systems or better windows or something like that or better mechanical
0:23:42.080,0:23:48.920
systems. What is the impact on your processes, on your people, on your product, on everything that's
0:23:48.920,0:23:56.160
downstream that would potentially last longer than that that fiveyear, we'll call it deferral of cost
0:23:56.160,0:24:01.520
for a project. Stephen, we have something to add here. It might be a slightly different um
0:24:01.520,0:24:08.120
topic here, but what I want to bring up is that, you know, we've talked a lot so far about what
0:24:08.120,0:24:15.840
Genesis does and what our clients do, but what we haven't mentioned is that especially in the major
0:24:15.840,0:24:25.840
energy uh consumers, boilers, chillers, air compressors, those prime movers are often
0:24:26.760,0:24:34.320
not owned, but they're they're managed. by vendors that sublide them and that brings in
0:24:34.320,0:24:41.840
another set of of people or entities that conflict with each other. They each have their own set of
0:24:41.840,0:24:49.120
goals and they're each have their own ideas on how to sustainably manage their systems. But
0:24:49.120,0:24:54.560
if you take a boiler for an example and you have a boiler operator and the boiler manufacturer maybe
0:24:54.560,0:25:00.280
is providing the maintenance and operation of that boiler system and then you have another group
0:25:00.280,0:25:07.400
that says I can take water that's been rejected from my reverse osmosis system and use it as
0:25:07.400,0:25:15.080
boiler feed water. You now have a conflict between wanting to send a different kind of a water to
0:25:15.080,0:25:21.240
the boiler than the boiler operator expects. And there needs to be a dialogue there to make that
0:25:21.240,0:25:28.480
achievable. If you want to use that same water as feed water to make up water, the cooling towers,
0:25:28.480,0:25:35.640
and yet you have a cooling tower chemistry company that's carefully managing the the
0:25:35.640,0:25:40.920
quality of that water and you introduce a water that's different than what they're used to seeing
0:25:40.920,0:25:46.320
and it may change its quality over the year, course of the year due to the outside weather,
0:25:46.320,0:25:52.440
it could disrupt uh what they're trying to achieve and maybe working across purposes is here the
0:25:52.440,0:25:57.760
results would be less than ideal. How do you think that we can achieve that sort of collaboration?
0:25:57.760,0:26:04.040
You need to have a a broker, you know, a project manager in essence to recognize the
0:26:04.040,0:26:08.720
the contributions from each of these different entities and work with them
0:26:09.520,0:26:18.400
collaboratively to to um bridge the gaps, which isn't necessarily very easy because they,
0:26:18.400,0:26:24.480
as I said, you know, they have their own ideas on on how to go about it. In the case of a
0:26:24.480,0:26:29.960
a chemistry company for the cooling towers, you know, they're they're out there to sell chemicals
0:26:29.960,0:26:36.920
and if you come up with strategies to reduce the quantity of chemicals that are required, you know,
0:26:36.920,0:26:42.440
you're going to run into a um resistance. So would you say that we need a mindset shift
0:26:42.440,0:26:49.080
across the industry to accelerate this sustainable transformation? Yeah, we need the data collection.
0:26:49.080,0:26:58.680
We need the the science behind this and and and and convincing arguments to show the advantages of
0:26:58.680,0:27:06.320
making such changes. And Nathan, when you think what is the mindset shift you love to see across
0:27:06.320,0:27:15.120
industries? I think the biggest one is really just away from first cost. It's not just um it's not
0:27:15.120,0:27:20.440
just the initial dollar sign. Yes, there's there's sticker shock. That could be true for anything,
0:27:20.440,0:27:26.840
but it's the analogy of of a good pair of boots. You know, a good pair of boots that cost $300
0:27:26.840,0:27:33.400
versus a a bad pair of boots that cost $30. If the good pair of boots is going to last you 10 years,
0:27:33.400,0:27:38.440
but the bad pair of boots you have to continue to to buy new ones every six months, then at the
0:27:38.440,0:27:43.040
end of the day, you know, you're going to end up spending more. you're going to have worse feet and
0:27:43.040,0:27:47.680
and you're going to really pay for it in the long term. It's kind of that same idea. So if you're
0:27:47.680,0:27:55.120
able to to evaluate projects and evaluate work and and sustainability um much broader
0:27:55.120,0:28:01.080
perspective that includes more than just you know what's this going to cost on our on our line item
0:28:01.080,0:28:04.560
for this fiscal year then you're going to be in a much better place and that's going to really
0:28:04.560,0:28:10.400
open up opportunities to do a lot more for your facilities and your people. And for our audience
0:28:10.400,0:28:15.560
or members of our audience who are ready to make this shift and want to learn more about Genesis AEC
0:28:15.560,0:28:21.840
where they can get more information on the company and on both of you where they can get in touch
0:28:21.840,0:28:26.040
with you, maybe ask you more questions of course in the comments here in the podcast. But
0:28:26.040,0:28:31.840
if they want to, you know, write to you, DM you on social media or email you, can you share some
0:28:31.840,0:28:38.000
info here? Our corporate website is genesisaec.com and from there we have a sustainability page which
0:28:38.000,0:28:47.160
has a link to a description of pharma waterpro. We have a dedicated PharmaWater Pro
0:28:47.160,0:28:53.200
email address that inbox comes to me as well as a few others in our company. Of course we
0:28:53.200,0:28:59.240
have LinkedIn presence as well both individually and corporately. No I think that that covers it
0:28:59.240,0:29:04.600
for us today. Well, thank you both for being my guests here on the Green New Perspective podcast.
0:29:05.120,0:29:10.000
Hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. Thank you very much.