The Role of AI and Data in Sustainable Construction
As our world shifts toward a greener future, the construction industry finds itself at a critical juncture. Exploring the essence of sustainable construction becomes imperative as we strive to pave the way for an eco-friendly era in the building trades.
That's why we’ve sat down with Ryan Buckley, the CEO and co-founder of Shovels, a company employing data and AI to bridge the gap between homeowners and cleantech companies.
Shovels dives into analyzing a whopping 100M building permits, facilitating climate tech companies in strategically targeting homeowners and building robust installer networks.
🎧 Listen to & watch the episode
🕑 KEY MOMENTS
➜ [00:04] We are now number 2 cleantech podcast by listens
➜ [01:53] Fnding good contractors and how Shovels AI is solving this problem by mining data from building permits
➜ [07:09] Ryan explains how Shovels AI provides data to climate tech companies so they can identify homeowners to target and find contractors to partner with
➜ [08:26]Trends in building electrification and how data helps climate companies market to the right homeowners
➜ [22:45] Ryan shares advice for clean tech startups on getting up to speed in the industry
👤 INTERVIEW WITH RYAN BUCKLEY
Dunja Jovanovic: To kick things off, could you please introduce yourself to our audience and provide some insights into Shovel, the company we'll be focusing on in this episode?
Ryan Buckley: Hi, glad to be here. I'm Ryan Buckley, the CEO and co-founder of Shovels. Our focus is on addressing a critical issue in building electrification and green trades. We assist climate tech companies in identifying target homeowners for their electrification products and help them find suitable contractors for installations.
DJ: Can you elaborate on the challenges you encountered in the construction industry and what motivated you to start Shovels?
RB: Identifying a reliable contractor is a challenge. Unlike other industries, there isn't a centralized platform for contractors, and people often resort to platforms with potential biases. We aim to solve this problem by leveraging building permit data, extracting contractor information, and providing unbiased recommendations.
DJ: Shovels seem to be filling a crucial gap. How do climate tech companies utilize data to enhance sustainability in construction?
RB: Climate tech companies are developing innovative solutions, from heat pump systems to virtual power plants. They rely on our data to identify homeowners with specific needs, like EV chargers or batteries, allowing them to target the right audience for their products. Additionally, contractors serve as a valuable marketing channel for these companies.
DJ: Could you share an example of how your clients use Shovels' data to promote sustainability in construction?
RB: Here is one example: a company called Flip Energy utilized our data on EV charging to run a targeted direct mail campaign. They sent postcards to addresses with batteries, aiming to engage homeowners in installing software on them, showcasing how our data facilitates targeted marketing.
DJ: How do homeowners and businesses contribute to making their buildings more sustainable, based on your data?
RB: We observe a growing trend in various building electrification practices, such as solar panel installations, heat pump HVAC systems, wall batteries, EV chargers, and even induction stoves. The number of installations and contractors involved in these practices is steadily increasing, indicating a positive shift towards sustainability.
DJ: Shovels have historical construction data spanning decades. How does analyzing this data help identify trends in sustainability and environmental practices?
RB: We've collaborated with academics to analyze how homeowners adapt to new regulations, energy pricing, and incentives. This historical data allows us to understand trends in building electrification, helping us anticipate the impact of upcoming initiatives like the Inflation Reduction Act on the construction industry.
DJ: As a unique company, how do you market and present Shovels to make your mission clear, considering it's a relatively new concept?
RB: Currently, we're focused on ensuring data quality, positioning it as our strategic differentiator. We deliver data through CSV files and an API for climate companies to programmatically access information. We've also formed partnerships to enhance coverage for contact information, enabling targeted ad campaigns based on permit activity.
DJ: Looking ahead, do you have plans for new products or features in Shovels?
RB: We've partnered with a contact data company to improve coverage and run targeted ad campaigns. Additionally, as states set up infrastructure for incentives like the Inflation Reduction Act, we plan to incorporate lists of approved contractors into Shovels, creating a unique intersection between incentives and contractor databases.
DJ: Are there any emerging technologies you're enthusiastic about, and how do you see them impacting the construction industry?
RB: We're closely watching the evolution of data lakes, with platforms like Snowflake gaining prominence. These technologies can streamline data integration and activation, providing better solutions for enterprise customers. As these technologies become more mainstream, we aim to leverage them to enhance our data offerings.
DJ: Finally, what advice would you give to tech startups entering the cleantech industry today?
RB: I recommend reading key books like "How to Avoid a Climate Disaster" by Bill Gates, "Speed and Scale" by John Doerr, and "Electrify" by Saul Griffith. Joining supportive communities like Work on Climate and My Climate Journey is invaluable for staying informed.
Stay engaged, stay informed, and be part of the growing cleantech movement.
📝 EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
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hey there and welcome back to another
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episode of The Green New Perspective
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podcast and guess what we have recently
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found out there our podcast is the
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second best traded clean Tech podcast on
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Google with more than 5K listens per
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episode per month yeah you heard well
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the numbers are amazing so big shout out
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to you for supporting us and helping us
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to make the clean Tech Community more
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visible now if you're into laidback
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conversations with experts from CLE Tech
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biotech nature Tech and agretech space
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where we chat about their gamechanging
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businesses that are shaking up the world
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stick around because today I've got a
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fantastic guest his name is Ryan Buckley
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he is the CEO and co-founder of shovels
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Ai and company that is using Ai and data
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to support sustainable construction so
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it's going to be a good one so kick back
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and
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enjoy
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[Music]
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hi Ryan and welcome to the green New
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Perspective podcast hi I'm glad to be
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here so for starters can you introduce
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yourself to our audience and tell us a
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bit more about shovel AI the company
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that we're dedicating this episode
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to yeah my name's Ryan Buckley I'm the
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CEO and the co-founder of
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shovels and we are solving important
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problem in the Building electrification
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Trades or the green trades we are
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helping climate tech companies identify
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homeowners to Target for their
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electrification products and we're also
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helping them identify the right
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contractors to do the
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installations so can you tell us a bit
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more about the issues that you had that
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well the issues with the construction
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industry and why did you wanted to start
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your company yeah
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the um you know it's hard to identify a
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good contractor there is no link in for
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contractors you don't um find in the
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Yellow Pages some aggregate directory a
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lot of people today are using Yelp to
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identify contractors or they go to one
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of these marketplaces where there is
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sometimes awkward or adverse Financial
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incentives the uh Marketplace will only
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give you the contractors that they have
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a financial relationship with so getting
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an
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unbiased ideal recommendation for a
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contractor doesn't um just doesn't
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really exist right now and we're trying
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to solve that by mining this data from
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the building permits which exist at city
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and county levels all over the country
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um so we take that data there's usually
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there's a contractor associated with
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that permit not always but majority of
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the time it's there and it's a really
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interesting data science problem to
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extract that data associate it with the
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permit D duplicate it and then make it
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usable and accessible to um both to
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people and to companies so we are a B2B
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company like we're a data provider which
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means means uh we're selling this data
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to other companies so that they can
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build applications that might be more
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consumer facing um and uh we're
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targeting specifically right now climate
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companies because they have urgency um
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they are willing and able to work with
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data specifically with uh with apis I
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can describe later what that means and
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there's also a lot of money being um
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invested in these companies right now so
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they have uh they have the budget and
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they really need this information that
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we're providing so my next question for
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you is kind of logical so how do you use
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data to make construction more
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environmentally friendly climate tech
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companies are building all sorts of
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interesting stuff we're talking to
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companies that graduated from y
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combinator that are building their own
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heat pump systems it's really exciting
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so some Hardware startups um coming up
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some new back battery uh companies
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coming up of course the solar industry
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has been around for decades um that's a
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pretty mature industry but there's this
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emerging opportunity to um build virtual
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power plants in communities which uh in
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a nutshell and I'm no expert in vpps but
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from what I understand it is the idea
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that latent or or stored energy in the
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batteries and um like both car batteries
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and wall batteries inside people's homes
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can be used to like Smooth out or sort
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of offset fluctuations in the grid so
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that electrical utilities won't need to
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fire up less efficient gas or um even
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oil powered or coal powered power plants
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um so the future of energy usage um in
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the country will involve um battery
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storage at this like really macro
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distributed level and that's going to
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require software so what I'm seeing is a
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lot of climate tech companies building
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the software to um allow that type of
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energy transfer to happen um so this
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kind of a long windup to answer your
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question in order for the uh but it is
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sort of complicated but it's interesting
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um in order for these climate tech
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companies to know who to Target to get
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their software installed they need to
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know who has an EV charger therefore
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they have an electric vehicle and who
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has a
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battery and that data exists in the
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building permits so um we provide that
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to them sometimes those same climate
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tech companies instead of going direct
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to the homeowners they'll use the
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contractors as a marketing channel they
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go to the contractors and then they can
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say hey here's a pamphlet you know tell
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tell that homeowner you just installed
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that battery in their house tell them
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now to install our
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software um so we provide them with both
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bits of information the homeowners as
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well as the contractors so you were sort
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of a
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shortcut exactly yeah we're kind of like
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a like a lead
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generation service um yeah like a list
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Builder but very specific to climate
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companies and do you have an example
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that you could share of how some of your
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clients use your data uh to promote
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sustainability in
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construction yeah so along uh along
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those lines there's a uh there's a
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company called flip energy we sold um a
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bunch of data on
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EV it was EV charging uh to to him and
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he's building software on top of EV
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Chargers and um he's doing a direct mail
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campaign so actually um sending
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postcards to people at those addresses
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who have EV Chargers in order to get
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them to um contact him about installing
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software on the EV Chargers so that's
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like one example of how uh how this data
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is
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useful and do you do something to make
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homes and buildings more sustainable and
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I would like to know from your
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experience with data what people do
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actually to make their homes more
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sustainable yeah um so we are seeing a
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lot of activity um around different
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types of building
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electrification so um we see solar
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panels installed we see heat pump um
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HVAC systems installed mostly air source
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uh heat pump HVAC wall batteries EV
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Chargers and uh even induction
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stoves um we'll we'll see that type of
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data as
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well really nice you see
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growing uh yeah so the the number of
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installs um across the country is
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growing and uh so are the number of
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contractors doing these installs we see
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that um the number of permits per
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contractor is growing the total number
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of contractors is growing we even did an
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analysis showing that the number of
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contractors whose service area in other
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words their permits
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um move Beyond just one jurisdiction so
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they're like in in multiple permitting
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jurisdictions that group uh is also
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growing so there's like there's more new
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contractors coming into the market the
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existing ones are expanding their
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service area and they're all doing a lot
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more
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permits yeah I'm asking this because on
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your website I read that you have
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historical construction data that goes
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back to decades so how can analyzing
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this sort of data help us understanding
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Trends related to sustainability
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environmental
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practices yeah so we are um we're also
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working with some academics there are
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actually two people um two researchers
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at UC Berkeley one at the Lawrence
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Livermore lab another one in uh I
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believe she's in actually the uh
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architecture oh no she was College of
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Natural Resources at Berkeley um they're
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both interested in looking at how
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homeowners
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are um adapting to new
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regulations and um differences in energy
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pricing and the new inflation reduction
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act incentives so people will be
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watching this really really closely and
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in the coming year as um like literally
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hundreds of billions of dollars are
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going to be released by the federal
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government in order to
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incentivize more building
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electrification programs uh both
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residential and commercial but I
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think bulk of the volume is going to be
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at the residential
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level and um I wanted to ask you since
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well you're quite a unique company
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so how do you advertise yourself and how
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do you actually present what you're
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doing because it's fairly
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new so how do you make people understand
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what you're
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doing it's it's uh it's real
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work I found that LinkedIn has been
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great I'm pretty sure that's how we
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connected right it was it was on L yes
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so posting
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some of our more interesting
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findings um I try to do that at least
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every week because we're constantly
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pulling new data for our customers and
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even just prospects that come in it
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becomes a nice virtuous cycle where
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someone will come in with an interesting
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question
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and often it's a data extraction that we
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haven't done before like a different way
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of looking at our data and um
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because it's just a sample I'm giving to
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them I will uh take that same sample
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maybe expand it a little bit put a chart
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on it and post it to LinkedIn and say
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something about it because it is
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interesting it's interesting to me um
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for example this was a customer who came
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in well I guess they're a prospect they
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haven't paid us yet but they were really
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interested in contractors that have a
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specific license in California this is
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an electric license called a or it's
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labeled a
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C10 um electrical license in
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California and they were curious how
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many C10 contractors have active have
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had permits in California in the last
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six months um so like what what's the
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the total number the unique set of
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contractors that have done a permit that
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have this one specific license and we're
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able to get that from them and I'd never
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actually even looked at this field like
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we have it it's in the data but we don't
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really parse it we don't include it in
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the
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API um so that that's actually what's
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really fun about this is the the breadth
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um and the richness of building permit
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data when you combine it with state
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license like Contractor License level
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data um which has all of these
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certifications and um state level
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approvals you really build this unique
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intersection um which I I think we may
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be the first ones to like really look at
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this that that that combination of data
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permits and state level certifications
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um for
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contractors that that's um that's a new
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view into the building traits and how do
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people from climate space React to what
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you're
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doing fortunately it's been very very
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positive so like I said
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um I well I guess I I didn't really give
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the background of shovels uh just yet
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but um we always did intend to support
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climate um technology and climate
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startups when um when I went through the
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process of electrifying um my house here
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in the Bay Area in San Francisco it was
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uh it was a challenging process um we
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got lucky we hired a really good
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contractor
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but I have neighbors who were not so
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lucky and that's what originally got me
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interested in um this this data set um
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because I was actually looking for
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another company to build and another
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problem to to think about um so this one
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kind of fell into my lap and uh building
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permits as the solution took a little
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while to to dig that out but sort of had
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the problem and then eventually found
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the an interesting solution for it
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um fortunately climate companies you
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know they they have this same problem
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it's like the exact same problem that I
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had um these these companies have
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because uh building electrification it's
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it's requires a licensed contractor to
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do the
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installation um it's I don't think
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that's going to change I think um what
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what will change is more jurisdictions
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are thinking about streamlining the
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permitting process so that it goes
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faster but they're not going to get rid
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of the permits all together so there
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will always be a need to hire a
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contractor to Electrify your home like
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that's not going to go away uh and
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that's a real problem for building
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electrification companies and startups
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because they want to make a good
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recommendation a bad contractor can and
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a bad installation can do a lot of
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damage not just for that one homeowner
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but then all of their family and friends
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who they go on to
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complain uh about this whole experience
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too so it becomes this negative viral
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Loop and there yeah exactly um and the
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unfortunate thing is if if you if you
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buy a heat pump and you have a bad
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install the heat pump doesn't work very
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well you're going to blame the heat pump
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you're not going to blame the installer
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and uh the fact is just with with uh
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climate uh changing the way it is and
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and the uh gas consumption in in most
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homes um we need homeowners to make this
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switch and that's why the inflation
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reduction Act is putting so much uh so
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many resources into incentivizing
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homeowners to do this um it's going to
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be hard enough as it is on a good day
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but if people are getting the wrong
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impression about heat pumps it's going
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to be a lot harder um so I kind of think
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of us as like the safety rails in that
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process um a trusted partner for climate
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tech companies that are building the
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technology to uh to make this all work
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and uh and they need to have good
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contractor
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recommendations um so that's a void that
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we're filling and since yeah since you
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asked it doesn't take much to to get
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them excited and interested in talking
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uh to us about our
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data and how do you plan to develop your
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company you have some yeah new products
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or uh new features that you are going to
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launch we are focusing on data quality
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uh I think that's going to be our
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strategic differentiator we want to get
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the quality right before we start
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building um user interface
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and other types of uh user experiences
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for now we deliver CSV files and we have
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an API that uh allows climate companies
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to programmatically access our data like
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in any kind of scripting
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language um couple things that we're
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really excited about though um we've
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partnered with another contact data
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company that will dramatically improve
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our coverage for contact information for
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homeowners and for
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contractors this company will also allow
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us to run ad campaigns so these are um
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to to tap
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into um ad networks and target people
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based on their permit activity so if you
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wanted to run an ad campaign for every
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person who's installed solar in the last
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couple years or installed solar ever or
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any person who's any homeowner uh that
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that has installed an
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Adu um we can run those ad campaigns now
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and that's uh that's really exciting so
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we're going to do that uh which will
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also be really helpful for climate
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companies and then um as the states get
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infrastructure set up for the inflation
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reduction act incentives they are going
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to be releasing lists of approved
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contractors um because it's mostly going
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to be contractors applying for these
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rebates
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we're Gathering that information we're
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incorporating that into shovels as well
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um this is a request from our climate uh
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customers um and as far as I know we're
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going to be the only game in town as far
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as um that kind of uh overlap between
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the inflation reduction act um
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electrification rebate incentives and
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building contractor databases like we're
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GNA own that intersection
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uh and be the best at that so uh we're
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excited about all all of that that's a
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00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:42,039
good space to
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00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:43,440
be so um are you maybe excited about
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00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:45,960
some emerging
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Technologies they're going to you know
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happen in the next five years let's say
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and how do you gonna impact the the
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construction
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industry yeah we're um so on the data
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side we're very curious about the
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phenomenon of data Lakes um there's
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00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:09,600
snowflake data bricks census um this
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00:21:08,159 --> 00:21:17,559
whole reverse
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00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:20,440
ETL data um flow system that will help
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Enterprise customers um specifically I'm
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not sure how this will work with smaller
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climate tech companies but we are
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sitting on hundreds of millions of Rec
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records and we want to make it easy for
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our customers to push that information
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into their Salesforce into their hub
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spot like wherever they want it to go
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and not have to build a custom
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integration every time
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um so as these data Lake companies um
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get more mainstream or something they
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call them data activation companies um
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we're we're watching that space really
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closely and I'm just starting to get
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familiar with snowflake it it seems to
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be a pretty awesome
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ecosystem
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um that will trickle down to
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construction tech companies and property
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technology
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00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:22,000
companies um traditionally we've been
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laggards in Tech adoption and uh and
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utilizing the the best um data
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technology
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um so we want to be on the Forefront of
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that and and help our our customers use
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uh use these new data
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products and so my last question for you
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will be um what advice would you give to
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other uh Tech startups like yours that
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are getting started today and want to
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get involved with the clean tech
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industry yeah that's a good
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question
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I
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suggest the best way to get started
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today is um
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read three books and join two slack
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communities so the the three books these
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were really really helpful for me just
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to understand the scope of the problem
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and get a really good idea of the
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various Niche opportunities that exist
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so one of them is how to avoid a CL
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Disaster by Bill Gates the other one is
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speed and scale by John der and the
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third one is Electrify everything by
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Saul
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Griffith and there's a lot of overlap
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between those three books but they each
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present different
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perspectives you know Bill Gates like
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very kind of a global Focus now he's got
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his his bill know the Melinda Gates
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Foundation had on John derer really
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successful old school venture capitalist
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has always been been interested in
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climate and leading Kleiner Perkins in
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that direction and then Saul Griffith is
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this uh just kind of a Genus um
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inventor and uh and wrote a really
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really compelling like really good very
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positive book on uh on electrification
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and I thought he addresses a lot of the
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uh a lot of the like really fair um
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labor displacement kind of concerns um
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but also
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makes comes at it really from a physics
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like kind of a physicist perspective
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which I I really appreciated so uh
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anyway those three books and then two
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slack communities work on climate is one
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slack Community awesome really really
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supportive tons of activity and then my
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climate Journey where you do have to
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00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,799
apply I think there's a $10 fee to join
519
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:55,120
my climate Journey um but both of them
520
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:57,320
have been instrumental and even if
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00:24:55,120 --> 00:25:00,600
you're just there to lurk to see what
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00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:03,679
people are talking about um I just can't
523
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,559
think of a better way to get informed
524
00:25:03,679 --> 00:25:07,480
both to answer both of your questions
525
00:25:05,559 --> 00:25:10,240
actually to in terms of starting a
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00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,720
company but also getting involved and
527
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:15,480
just kind of becoming more knowledgeable
528
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,520
about what's happening in climate Tech
529
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,159
well thank you I have to check this well
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00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,799
I've read the first one but the other
531
00:25:19,159 --> 00:25:23,919
two I haven't so they they seem like
532
00:25:21,799 --> 00:25:25,600
really interesting thing to read I and
533
00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:28,399
thank you for the flag channels maybe we
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00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:31,000
can link them in the description our
535
00:25:28,399 --> 00:25:33,440
episode so that people can easily join
536
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:37,399
and well if nothing then lur like you
537
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:41,080
said um and where can people find you
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00:25:37,399 --> 00:25:47,360
online and follow shovels I um so
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00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:49,880
shovels is shovel. a www. shovel. a I am
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00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:52,919
pretty much everywhere online under the
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00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:58,120
username arbu rbu
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00:25:52,919 --> 00:26:00,960
ckss and uh my personal blog is rb.com
543
00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:04,480
and I write a lot about entrepreneurship
544
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:07,760
local politics um stuff like that so
545
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,760
those are the best places to find
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00:26:09,250 --> 00:26:12,390
[Music]
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00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,880
me as always at the end of each Green
548
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,960
New Perspective episode I am here to
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00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:24,919
politely remind you to subscribe to our
550
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:27,159
channel on zanter on YouTube on Spotify
551
00:26:24,919 --> 00:26:29,320
on Apple podcast or wherever you stream
552
00:26:27,159 --> 00:26:31,720
your podcast because your support means
553
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:34,559
the world to us and to the visibility of
554
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:36,840
the cint Tech Community this episode is
555
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:39,000
proudly sponsored by New Perspective a
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00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,640
nextg marketing agency working with
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00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,880
clean tech clients only if you want to
558
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,080
be a sponsor of this podcast please
559
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:49,039
check out the info in the description of
560
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:51,679
this episode and find all our contact
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00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:54,679
informations so that will be that for
562
00:26:51,679 --> 00:26:59,159
this this episode and until next time
563
00:26:54,679 --> 00:26:59,159
have fun and see you in two weeks
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,400
hey there and welcome back to another
2
00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:07,240
episode of The Green New Perspective
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00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,559
podcast and guess what we have recently
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00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:12,040
found out there our podcast is the
5
00:00:09,559 --> 00:00:14,759
second best traded clean Tech podcast on
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00:00:12,040 --> 00:00:17,880
Google with more than 5K listens per
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00:00:14,759 --> 00:00:21,000
episode per month yeah you heard well
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the numbers are amazing so big shout out
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00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:26,160
to you for supporting us and helping us
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to make the clean Tech Community more
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00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:31,439
visible now if you're into laidback
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conversations with experts from CLE Tech
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biotech nature Tech and agretech space
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where we chat about their gamechanging
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businesses that are shaking up the world
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stick around because today I've got a
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00:00:41,559 --> 00:00:47,399
fantastic guest his name is Ryan Buckley
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he is the CEO and co-founder of shovels
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Ai and company that is using Ai and data
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to support sustainable construction so
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it's going to be a good one so kick back
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and
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enjoy
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[Music]
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hi Ryan and welcome to the green New
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Perspective podcast hi I'm glad to be
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here so for starters can you introduce
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yourself to our audience and tell us a
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bit more about shovel AI the company
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that we're dedicating this episode
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to yeah my name's Ryan Buckley I'm the
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CEO and the co-founder of
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shovels and we are solving important
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problem in the Building electrification
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Trades or the green trades we are
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helping climate tech companies identify
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homeowners to Target for their
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electrification products and we're also
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helping them identify the right
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contractors to do the
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installations so can you tell us a bit
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more about the issues that you had that
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well the issues with the construction
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industry and why did you wanted to start
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your company yeah
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the um you know it's hard to identify a
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good contractor there is no link in for
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contractors you don't um find in the
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Yellow Pages some aggregate directory a
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lot of people today are using Yelp to
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identify contractors or they go to one
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of these marketplaces where there is
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sometimes awkward or adverse Financial
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incentives the uh Marketplace will only
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give you the contractors that they have
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a financial relationship with so getting
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an
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unbiased ideal recommendation for a
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contractor doesn't um just doesn't
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really exist right now and we're trying
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to solve that by mining this data from
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the building permits which exist at city
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and county levels all over the country
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um so we take that data there's usually
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there's a contractor associated with
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that permit not always but majority of
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the time it's there and it's a really
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interesting data science problem to
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extract that data associate it with the
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permit D duplicate it and then make it
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usable and accessible to um both to
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people and to companies so we are a B2B
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company like we're a data provider which
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means means uh we're selling this data
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to other companies so that they can
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build applications that might be more
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consumer facing um and uh we're
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targeting specifically right now climate
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companies because they have urgency um
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they are willing and able to work with
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data specifically with uh with apis I
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can describe later what that means and
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there's also a lot of money being um
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invested in these companies right now so
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they have uh they have the budget and
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they really need this information that
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we're providing so my next question for
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you is kind of logical so how do you use
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data to make construction more
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environmentally friendly climate tech
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companies are building all sorts of
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interesting stuff we're talking to
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companies that graduated from y
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combinator that are building their own
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heat pump systems it's really exciting
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so some Hardware startups um coming up
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some new back battery uh companies
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coming up of course the solar industry
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has been around for decades um that's a
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pretty mature industry but there's this
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emerging opportunity to um build virtual
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power plants in communities which uh in
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a nutshell and I'm no expert in vpps but
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from what I understand it is the idea
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that latent or or stored energy in the
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batteries and um like both car batteries
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and wall batteries inside people's homes
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can be used to like Smooth out or sort
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of offset fluctuations in the grid so
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that electrical utilities won't need to
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fire up less efficient gas or um even
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oil powered or coal powered power plants
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um so the future of energy usage um in
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the country will involve um battery
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storage at this like really macro
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distributed level and that's going to
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require software so what I'm seeing is a
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lot of climate tech companies building
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the software to um allow that type of
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energy transfer to happen um so this
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kind of a long windup to answer your
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question in order for the uh but it is
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sort of complicated but it's interesting
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um in order for these climate tech
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companies to know who to Target to get
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their software installed they need to
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know who has an EV charger therefore
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they have an electric vehicle and who
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has a
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battery and that data exists in the
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building permits so um we provide that
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to them sometimes those same climate
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tech companies instead of going direct
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to the homeowners they'll use the
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contractors as a marketing channel they
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go to the contractors and then they can
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say hey here's a pamphlet you know tell
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tell that homeowner you just installed
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that battery in their house tell them
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now to install our
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software um so we provide them with both
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bits of information the homeowners as
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well as the contractors so you were sort
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of a
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shortcut exactly yeah we're kind of like
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a like a lead
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generation service um yeah like a list
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Builder but very specific to climate
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companies and do you have an example
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that you could share of how some of your
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clients use your data uh to promote
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sustainability in
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construction yeah so along uh along
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those lines there's a uh there's a
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company called flip energy we sold um a
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bunch of data on
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EV it was EV charging uh to to him and
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he's building software on top of EV
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Chargers and um he's doing a direct mail
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campaign so actually um sending
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postcards to people at those addresses
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who have EV Chargers in order to get
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them to um contact him about installing
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software on the EV Chargers so that's
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like one example of how uh how this data
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is
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useful and do you do something to make
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homes and buildings more sustainable and
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I would like to know from your
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experience with data what people do
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actually to make their homes more
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sustainable yeah um so we are seeing a
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lot of activity um around different
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types of building
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electrification so um we see solar
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panels installed we see heat pump um
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HVAC systems installed mostly air source
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uh heat pump HVAC wall batteries EV
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Chargers and uh even induction
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stoves um we'll we'll see that type of
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data as
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well really nice you see
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growing uh yeah so the the number of
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installs um across the country is
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growing and uh so are the number of
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contractors doing these installs we see
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that um the number of permits per
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contractor is growing the total number
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of contractors is growing we even did an
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analysis showing that the number of
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contractors whose service area in other
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words their permits
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um move Beyond just one jurisdiction so
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they're like in in multiple permitting
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jurisdictions that group uh is also
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growing so there's like there's more new
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contractors coming into the market the
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existing ones are expanding their
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service area and they're all doing a lot
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more
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permits yeah I'm asking this because on
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your website I read that you have
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historical construction data that goes
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back to decades so how can analyzing
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this sort of data help us understanding
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Trends related to sustainability
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environmental
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practices yeah so we are um we're also
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working with some academics there are
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actually two people um two researchers
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at UC Berkeley one at the Lawrence
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Livermore lab another one in uh I
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believe she's in actually the uh
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architecture oh no she was College of
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Natural Resources at Berkeley um they're
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both interested in looking at how
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homeowners
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are um adapting to new
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regulations and um differences in energy
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pricing and the new inflation reduction
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act incentives so people will be
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watching this really really closely and
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in the coming year as um like literally
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hundreds of billions of dollars are
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going to be released by the federal
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government in order to
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incentivize more building
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electrification programs uh both
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residential and commercial but I
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think bulk of the volume is going to be
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at the residential
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level and um I wanted to ask you since
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well you're quite a unique company
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so how do you advertise yourself and how
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do you actually present what you're
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doing because it's fairly
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new so how do you make people understand
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what you're
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doing it's it's uh it's real
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work I found that LinkedIn has been
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great I'm pretty sure that's how we
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connected right it was it was on L yes
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so posting
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some of our more interesting
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findings um I try to do that at least
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every week because we're constantly
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pulling new data for our customers and
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even just prospects that come in it
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becomes a nice virtuous cycle where
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someone will come in with an interesting
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question
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and often it's a data extraction that we
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haven't done before like a different way
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of looking at our data and um
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because it's just a sample I'm giving to
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them I will uh take that same sample
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maybe expand it a little bit put a chart
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on it and post it to LinkedIn and say
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something about it because it is
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interesting it's interesting to me um
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for example this was a customer who came
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in well I guess they're a prospect they
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haven't paid us yet but they were really
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interested in contractors that have a
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specific license in California this is
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an electric license called a or it's
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labeled a
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C10 um electrical license in
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California and they were curious how
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many C10 contractors have active have
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had permits in California in the last
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six months um so like what what's the
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the total number the unique set of
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contractors that have done a permit that
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have this one specific license and we're
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able to get that from them and I'd never
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actually even looked at this field like
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we have it it's in the data but we don't
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really parse it we don't include it in
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the
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API um so that that's actually what's
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really fun about this is the the breadth
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um and the richness of building permit
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data when you combine it with state
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license like Contractor License level
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data um which has all of these
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certifications and um state level
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approvals you really build this unique
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intersection um which I I think we may
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be the first ones to like really look at
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this that that that combination of data
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permits and state level certifications
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um for
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contractors that that's um that's a new
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view into the building traits and how do
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people from climate space React to what
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you're
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doing fortunately it's been very very
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positive so like I said
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um I well I guess I I didn't really give
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the background of shovels uh just yet
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but um we always did intend to support
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climate um technology and climate
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startups when um when I went through the
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process of electrifying um my house here
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in the Bay Area in San Francisco it was
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uh it was a challenging process um we
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got lucky we hired a really good
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contractor
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but I have neighbors who were not so
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lucky and that's what originally got me
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interested in um this this data set um
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because I was actually looking for
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another company to build and another
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problem to to think about um so this one
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kind of fell into my lap and uh building
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permits as the solution took a little
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while to to dig that out but sort of had
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the problem and then eventually found
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the an interesting solution for it
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um fortunately climate companies you
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know they they have this same problem
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it's like the exact same problem that I
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had um these these companies have
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because uh building electrification it's
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it's requires a licensed contractor to
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do the
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installation um it's I don't think
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that's going to change I think um what
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what will change is more jurisdictions
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are thinking about streamlining the
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permitting process so that it goes
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faster but they're not going to get rid
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of the permits all together so there
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will always be a need to hire a
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contractor to Electrify your home like
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that's not going to go away uh and
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that's a real problem for building
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electrification companies and startups
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because they want to make a good
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recommendation a bad contractor can and
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a bad installation can do a lot of
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damage not just for that one homeowner
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but then all of their family and friends
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who they go on to
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complain uh about this whole experience
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too so it becomes this negative viral
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Loop and there yeah exactly um and the
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unfortunate thing is if if you if you
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buy a heat pump and you have a bad
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install the heat pump doesn't work very
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well you're going to blame the heat pump
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you're not going to blame the installer
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and uh the fact is just with with uh
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climate uh changing the way it is and
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and the uh gas consumption in in most
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homes um we need homeowners to make this
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switch and that's why the inflation
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reduction Act is putting so much uh so
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many resources into incentivizing
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homeowners to do this um it's going to
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be hard enough as it is on a good day
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but if people are getting the wrong
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impression about heat pumps it's going
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to be a lot harder um so I kind of think
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of us as like the safety rails in that
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process um a trusted partner for climate
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tech companies that are building the
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technology to uh to make this all work
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and uh and they need to have good
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contractor
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recommendations um so that's a void that
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we're filling and since yeah since you
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asked it doesn't take much to to get
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them excited and interested in talking
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uh to us about our
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data and how do you plan to develop your
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company you have some yeah new products
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or uh new features that you are going to
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launch we are focusing on data quality
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uh I think that's going to be our
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strategic differentiator we want to get
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the quality right before we start
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building um user interface
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and other types of uh user experiences
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for now we deliver CSV files and we have
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an API that uh allows climate companies
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to programmatically access our data like
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in any kind of scripting
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language um couple things that we're
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really excited about though um we've
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partnered with another contact data
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company that will dramatically improve
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our coverage for contact information for
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homeowners and for
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contractors this company will also allow
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us to run ad campaigns so these are um
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to to tap
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into um ad networks and target people
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based on their permit activity so if you
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wanted to run an ad campaign for every
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person who's installed solar in the last
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couple years or installed solar ever or
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any person who's any homeowner uh that
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that has installed an
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Adu um we can run those ad campaigns now
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and that's uh that's really exciting so
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we're going to do that uh which will
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also be really helpful for climate
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companies and then um as the states get
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infrastructure set up for the inflation
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reduction act incentives they are going
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to be releasing lists of approved
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contractors um because it's mostly going
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to be contractors applying for these
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rebates
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we're Gathering that information we're
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incorporating that into shovels as well
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um this is a request from our climate uh
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customers um and as far as I know we're
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going to be the only game in town as far
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as um that kind of uh overlap between
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the inflation reduction act um
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electrification rebate incentives and
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building contractor databases like we're
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GNA own that intersection
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uh and be the best at that so uh we're
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excited about all all of that that's a
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good space to
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be so um are you maybe excited about
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some emerging
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Technologies they're going to you know
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happen in the next five years let's say
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and how do you gonna impact the the
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construction
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industry yeah we're um so on the data
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side we're very curious about the
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phenomenon of data Lakes um there's
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snowflake data bricks census um this
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whole reverse
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ETL data um flow system that will help
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Enterprise customers um specifically I'm
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not sure how this will work with smaller
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climate tech companies but we are
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sitting on hundreds of millions of Rec
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records and we want to make it easy for
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our customers to push that information
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into their Salesforce into their hub
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spot like wherever they want it to go
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and not have to build a custom
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integration every time
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um so as these data Lake companies um
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get more mainstream or something they
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call them data activation companies um
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we're we're watching that space really
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closely and I'm just starting to get
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familiar with snowflake it it seems to
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be a pretty awesome
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ecosystem
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um that will trickle down to
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construction tech companies and property
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technology
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companies um traditionally we've been
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laggards in Tech adoption and uh and
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utilizing the the best um data
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technology
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um so we want to be on the Forefront of
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that and and help our our customers use
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uh use these new data
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products and so my last question for you
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will be um what advice would you give to
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other uh Tech startups like yours that
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are getting started today and want to
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get involved with the clean tech
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industry yeah that's a good
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question
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I
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suggest the best way to get started
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today is um
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read three books and join two slack
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communities so the the three books these
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were really really helpful for me just
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to understand the scope of the problem
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and get a really good idea of the
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various Niche opportunities that exist
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so one of them is how to avoid a CL
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Disaster by Bill Gates the other one is
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speed and scale by John der and the
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third one is Electrify everything by
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Saul
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Griffith and there's a lot of overlap
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between those three books but they each
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present different
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perspectives you know Bill Gates like
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very kind of a global Focus now he's got
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his his bill know the Melinda Gates
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Foundation had on John derer really
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successful old school venture capitalist
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has always been been interested in
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climate and leading Kleiner Perkins in
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that direction and then Saul Griffith is
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this uh just kind of a Genus um
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inventor and uh and wrote a really
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really compelling like really good very
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positive book on uh on electrification
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and I thought he addresses a lot of the
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uh a lot of the like really fair um
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labor displacement kind of concerns um
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but also
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makes comes at it really from a physics
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like kind of a physicist perspective
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which I I really appreciated so uh
513
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:40,039
anyway those three books and then two
514
00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:42,840
slack communities work on climate is one
515
00:24:40,039 --> 00:24:45,240
slack Community awesome really really
516
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,240
supportive tons of activity and then my
517
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,440
climate Journey where you do have to
518
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,799
apply I think there's a $10 fee to join
519
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:55,120
my climate Journey um but both of them
520
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:57,320
have been instrumental and even if
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00:24:55,120 --> 00:25:00,600
you're just there to lurk to see what
522
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:03,679
people are talking about um I just can't
523
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,559
think of a better way to get informed
524
00:25:03,679 --> 00:25:07,480
both to answer both of your questions
525
00:25:05,559 --> 00:25:10,240
actually to in terms of starting a
526
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,720
company but also getting involved and
527
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:15,480
just kind of becoming more knowledgeable
528
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,520
about what's happening in climate Tech
529
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,159
well thank you I have to check this well
530
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,799
I've read the first one but the other
531
00:25:19,159 --> 00:25:23,919
two I haven't so they they seem like
532
00:25:21,799 --> 00:25:25,600
really interesting thing to read I and
533
00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:28,399
thank you for the flag channels maybe we
534
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:31,000
can link them in the description our
535
00:25:28,399 --> 00:25:33,440
episode so that people can easily join
536
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:37,399
and well if nothing then lur like you
537
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:41,080
said um and where can people find you
538
00:25:37,399 --> 00:25:47,360
online and follow shovels I um so
539
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:49,880
shovels is shovel. a www. shovel. a I am
540
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:52,919
pretty much everywhere online under the
541
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:58,120
username arbu rbu
542
00:25:52,919 --> 00:26:00,960
ckss and uh my personal blog is rb.com
543
00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:04,480
and I write a lot about entrepreneurship
544
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:07,760
local politics um stuff like that so
545
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,760
those are the best places to find
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00:26:09,250 --> 00:26:12,390
[Music]
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00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,880
me as always at the end of each Green
548
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,960
New Perspective episode I am here to
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00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:24,919
politely remind you to subscribe to our
550
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:27,159
channel on zanter on YouTube on Spotify
551
00:26:24,919 --> 00:26:29,320
on Apple podcast or wherever you stream
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00:26:27,159 --> 00:26:31,720
your podcast because your support means
553
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:34,559
the world to us and to the visibility of
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00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:36,840
the cint Tech Community this episode is
555
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:39,000
proudly sponsored by New Perspective a
556
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,640
nextg marketing agency working with
557
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,880
clean tech clients only if you want to
558
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,080
be a sponsor of this podcast please
559
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:49,039
check out the info in the description of
560
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:51,679
this episode and find all our contact
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00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:54,679
informations so that will be that for
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00:26:51,679 --> 00:26:59,159
this this episode and until next time
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00:26:54,679 --> 00:26:59,159
have fun and see you in two weeks
📚 EPISODE RESOURCES & LINKS
- Shovels Website: https://www.shovels.ai/
- Shovels LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/shovels/
- Ryan’s blog: https://rbucks.com
Climate Communities: - https://mcjcollective.com
- https://workonclimate.org
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