Discover insights from Uplight on managing rising energy costs, optimizing grid usage, and the future of distributed energy resources.
About this episode
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Why does your energy bill keeps climbing
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and what can you actually do about it?
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Stay tuned to find
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out. As rising costs and grid chaos
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shake up the way we all use power, both
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utilities and consumers are scrambling
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to adapt. To make sense of it all, we
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turn to an expert. On today's episode,
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my guest is Hannah Bascom. She's the
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senior vice president at Uplight.
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Uplight is a tech company that works
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with power companies to make energy more
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easier to use and more affordable. And
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throughout the episode, you're going to
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learn how. So, tune in if you want to
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hear more about why your energy bill is
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changing, how tech can help you save,
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and how utilities are keeping up, and
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what that means for you. Welcome to the
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fresh episode of the Green New
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Perspective podcast.
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Hello, Hannah,
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and welcome to the Green New Perspective
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podcast. Hello, Dunja. Thanks for having
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me. So for starters, can you introduce
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Uplight? What Uplight does and why is
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that important right now? Absolutely. So
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Uplight is a technology company that
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helps utilities, grid operators, and
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ultimately their end consumers deploy,
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manage, monetize, and conserve energy
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resources. So that is so important right
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now because in a world of AI and lots of
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load growth, we are going to have to
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fundamentally think differently about
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how it is that we use the grid in order
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to minimize the costs that all of us
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wind up paying u for the investment that
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will need to happen on the grid. So
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thinking about how do we leverage
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various distributed energy resources or
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DERs for short things like solar and
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batteries and smart thermostats EVs will
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be really really important. So that's
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the stuff that Uplight thinks about. How
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do you manage all those resources? How
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do you get normal people and businesses
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involved in those programs and make it
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as easy as possible for them to
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understand just really what's going on
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with their energy? You have worked
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across the spectrum from consumer tech
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to electrification and now you're
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leading growth at Uplight. So what
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connects those roles to you? Well, I
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started the energy part of my career
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working for utility itself. Um, so
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Pacific Gas Gas and Electric Company uh
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in San Francisco. I was so fortunate to
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to start my that part of my career uh
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there because they are one of the
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largest utilities in the US. They're
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also one of the most progressive in
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terms of the programs that they're
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offering. And so I just learned a ton
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about how utilities make decisions, how
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the regulatory environment impacts that.
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And that really core and niche set of uh
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set of expertise has served me super
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well for the rest of my career. So it's
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the thing that ultimately enabled me to
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get hired at Nest. Uh and in 2014, I was
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the first person that ever had it any
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kind of utility background. And there
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was the vague notion that Nest was this
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amazing energy efficiency tool that also
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could do load flexibility. uh and
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utilities had all this money that they
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could use to help to fund those kinds of
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programs. And so gosh, wouldn't it make
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sense to harness that, get more Nest
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deployed, and then figure out how to
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leverage them on an ongoing basis? And
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so that was really the the role that I
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played at Nest, building out the
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strategy and the team and the
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partnerships to enable that. And then,
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you know, within within Big Google, once
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Nest was integrated into Big Google, it
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was really kind of more of the same. How
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do you figure out how to scale those
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programs as Google which of course is
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not at its heart an energy services
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company for you know for customers but
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is a really important platform for those
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customers. So thinking about how to
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leverage the broader ecosystem to help
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scale programs and leverage the best of
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Google to get customers engaged was you
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know was what I really thought all
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about. And then at uh I was in an
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electrification technology company
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company company called SPAN for a little
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bit as well. And that was you know more
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of the same expertise that I brought but
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also having gone through the process
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with Nest of scaling up the business. I
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just did a lot of fundamentals within
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span to help them set up for scale and
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success on an ongoing basis and then
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have been at Uplight now for a little
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over two years. And it's been so much
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fun to lead growth in the commercial
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organization because it being at the
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nexus of the energy ecosystem and the
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utility ecosystem to bring together all
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of those things again really in pursuit
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of of scale. And I will say that it's
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been an amazing ride at this moment
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because even since I started two years
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ago, the narrative about load growth and
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the importance of why load flexibility
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is such a crucial part of the solution
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to climate change, yes, but just running
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the grid, right? Just the the basics of
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making sure the lights are going on
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every day and making sure that costs are
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staying as affordable as possible for
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consumers. So it feels like there has
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never been a more important moment for
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the work that we're doing and so I'm I'm
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really excited about it. Yeah, we have
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only started this conversation and we
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mentioned grid a couple of times. Yeah,
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there's been a lot of talk about about
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the growing energy demand and the grid
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being under pressure. So what's actually
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happening and what's not being talked
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about? Well, I actually think there's
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been quite a lot of talk about the
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impact that AI has on load growth. And
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then even in more mainstream
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publications now, there's chatter about
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how are we going to make sure that the
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grid stays stays functional in a world
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where there is such extreme projections
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for in some scenarios doubling the size
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of the grid in the next couple decades.
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So I have been excited to see that
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because I think that we need more
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awareness of the problem and then more
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you know more focus on the solution. So
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just a couple of fun facts you know the
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average utilization today of the grid is
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something like 40%. Which is b means
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that there's a ton of excess capacity
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most of the time on the grid. And so it
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makes perfect intuitive sense to figure
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out before you go and double the size of
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the grid, let's figure out how to use
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that excess, you know, 60 60% that's
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hanging out most of the most of the
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year. There was a a report that came out
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recently from Duke University. And
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basically we can add half of the load
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that we need to to the grid today if we
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flex 0.5% of the hours every year.
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Right? So it's just all to say there's a
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tiny tiny sliver of the year where we
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are in a in a pickle and there's not
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enough space on the grid to deliver load
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to not only you know new data centers
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but everybody else that's already
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correct connect connected to the grid.
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So, let's figure out how to fix that.
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And then, of course, yes, invest
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incrementally in what we need to make
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sure that we continue to have the the
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reliability that that we need, we've
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come to expect on the grid, especially
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in a world of more extreme weather
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events, uh, both hot and cold. And how
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can smarter energy use on the customer
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side help solve these problems? Not all
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of them, but some maybe.
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Yeah, I am a big believer since my days
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at Nest that you really have to make
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make this accessible to customers. So,
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you know, probably not you and I, but
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most normal people don't spend a whole
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ton of time thinking about their
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electricity usage. I would actually
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posit that now because of the increases
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in electricity costs that we've seen,
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people are starting to think a lot more
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about their bill. So the latest data
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that I've seen is that one in three
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customers are actually behind on their
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energy uh their energy bills right now
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because of the increases of costs that
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we've seen. So I think this is
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increasingly going to be something that
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people are concerned about. But the
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connection between the bill and how
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energy is used is very complicated. It's
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complicated even for you know even for
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me to figure out like how to best
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optimize for my time of use rate or if I
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you know install a heat pump what will
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that do to my bills? So all of that is
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is confusing. So for us at Uplight, the
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key is let's make it as simple as
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possible for customers to understand
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what options they have, install the
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right equipment and connect it to load
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flexibility programs so that they're
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able to manage their bills as best as
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possible and also then so that the grid
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can benefit from all of those connected
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devices as well. And not just
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residential customers, business
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customers as well. So it really is it's
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a win-win for everyone. You mentioned at
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the beginning of the conversation that
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you work with ideas like demand
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response, smart thermostats, battery
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programs. So for someone who's outside
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the industry, how would you explain what
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those things do and why do they matter?
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Well, it's something that I have along
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the way had to talk a lot about. Um so
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automation I really believe is is
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crucial going forward to where where we
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need to be. And a lot of these new new
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devices, smart thermostats, EVs,
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etc. have the ability to automatically
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receive signals and shift energy when
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prices are the highest. And so that's
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very important for the grid and for
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ultimately everybody's everybody's bills
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because those are the most costly times
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to turn on, you know, incremental
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generations. So new gas power plants,
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you know, flick those on. So rather than
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paying one gas peaker plant for going
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on, you know, 20 40 hours a year,
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instead you can pay a lot of different
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people to participate a lot of times
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automatically with the devices in their
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home and they will see the benefit, but
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they won't otherwise be inconvenienced
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or uncomfortable. And so that is why it
0:10:09.120,0:10:12.880
really matters. And so what everybody
0:10:11.279,0:10:14.880
together is doing a little bit, it
0:10:12.880,0:10:17.760
really adds up to tremendous potential
0:10:14.880,0:10:19.920
for impact in terms of carbon savings,
0:10:17.760,0:10:22.160
but then also just in, you know, making
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sure that bills stay affordable for
0:10:22.160,0:10:26.000
everybody. And are utilities starting to
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use these tools differently than they
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did few years ago, let's say. For sure.
0:10:28.800,0:10:32.959
You know for for those of us who are
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more in the in the industry meeting load
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growth is a very daunting task because
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if you look at here in the US we need
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about 200 gigawatts of incremental
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generation I mean incremental capacity
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between now and 2030. If you look at the
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interconnection queues that exist today
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they're five years long. There's a lot
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of capacity in the queue, but we just we
0:10:54.320,0:10:59.600
couldn't build that incremental capacity
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that we need as quickly as as would be
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required. And that's just the
0:11:01.040,0:11:04.959
interconnection queues, right? That's not
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even counting, we have a bunch of supply
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chain issues with gas turbines and
0:11:07.680,0:11:10.560
various parts and tariff impact, all
0:11:09.440,0:11:12.720
those things, right? Like those are
0:11:10.560,0:11:14.800
super disruptive also to our ability to
0:11:12.720,0:11:16.320
just get new generation online. So even
0:11:14.800,0:11:17.839
if you could build it all, it's going to
0:11:16.320,0:11:20.160
be too expensive. So that's the other
0:11:17.839,0:11:22.440
thing already. As I mentioned before,
0:11:20.160,0:11:25.839
you know, we're seeing incremental uh
0:11:22.440,0:11:29.600
increases to the tune of, you know, 10,
0:11:25.839,0:11:31.680
20, 30, 50% in the past several years of
0:11:29.600,0:11:34.240
people's electric bills, that's going to
0:11:31.680,0:11:36.480
be just foundationally a problem in the
0:11:34.240,0:11:38.959
pursuit of meeting this new load growth
0:11:36.480,0:11:41.519
that's required. So, if you can't build
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it fast enough, you couldn't build it
0:11:41.519,0:11:46.240
affordably enough, you have to just
0:11:43.360,0:11:48.480
rethink how you're going to do things.
0:11:46.240,0:11:51.279
And so that's where all these devices
0:11:48.480,0:11:53.200
come, you know, come into play. And the
0:11:51.279,0:11:55.200
other thing that utilities are starting
0:11:53.200,0:11:58.160
to recognize is, I think for a long
0:11:55.200,0:12:00.480
time, there's a lot of skepticism about
0:11:58.160,0:12:02.240
how can we rely on these distributed
0:12:00.480,0:12:04.880
energy resources in people's homes and
0:12:02.240,0:12:07.000
businesses as a true asset for the grid.
0:12:04.880,0:12:09.440
And it was always a headscratcher for me
0:12:07.000,0:12:11.279
because there's a reason that your
0:12:09.440,0:12:13.839
retirement account is a portfolio,
0:12:11.279,0:12:16.480
right? portfolio is always going to
0:12:13.839,0:12:18.800
outperform a single asset in terms of
0:12:16.480,0:12:21.200
you know sustainable predictable
0:12:18.800,0:12:22.959
performance uh over over many years. So
0:12:21.200,0:12:25.200
that's what we're doing. We are bundling
0:12:22.959,0:12:28.639
all of these assets together and turning
0:12:25.200,0:12:30.560
them into a power plant um but one that
0:12:28.639,0:12:32.880
is not single point of failure, one that
0:12:30.560,0:12:34.880
has you know many tens or hundreds of
0:12:32.880,0:12:36.639
thousands of devices included and over
0:12:34.880,0:12:38.880
time we get super super predictable
0:12:36.639,0:12:40.720
results. Um, and the other thing that's
0:12:38.880,0:12:43.839
really cool is that the way that we are
0:12:40.720,0:12:47.360
at UpLight deploying algorithms, uh, we
0:12:43.839,0:12:49.839
actually can make make the the load
0:12:47.360,0:12:52.320
profile look basically exactly like a
0:12:49.839,0:12:54.720
power plant. So, you know, it's you see
0:12:52.320,0:12:56.800
like all this all the load turn on and
0:12:54.720,0:12:59.360
it's very flat and then at the end it
0:12:56.800,0:13:00.880
drops off. So that is a new relatively
0:12:59.360,0:13:03.120
new program that we have that we call
0:13:00.880,0:13:05.440
predictive capacity dispatch and we're
0:13:03.120,0:13:07.519
rolling it out with uh lots of utilities
0:13:05.440,0:13:09.360
now and I would expect that as people
0:13:07.519,0:13:11.440
get more comfortable with the fact that
0:13:09.360,0:13:13.120
yes this portfolio of assets can look
0:13:11.440,0:13:14.720
and act just like a normal power plant
0:13:13.120,0:13:17.120
that you know the guys on the supply
0:13:14.720,0:13:18.320
side are really familiar with operating
0:13:17.120,0:13:20.639
they're going to start incorporating
0:13:18.320,0:13:22.800
them more and more and utilities are big
0:13:20.639,0:13:24.720
complex organizations. What are some of
0:13:22.800,0:13:26.320
the challenges working with them? One of
0:13:24.720,0:13:28.079
the things that's so interesting about
0:13:26.320,0:13:30.240
utilities is that they are largely
0:13:28.079,0:13:32.480
monopolies. And so one of the
0:13:30.240,0:13:35.200
opportunities is that when you have
0:13:32.480,0:13:36.720
success in one place with one utility,
0:13:35.200,0:13:38.480
there's actually the ability to
0:13:36.720,0:13:39.760
socialize all the information to make it
0:13:38.480,0:13:41.519
a case study to make it publicly
0:13:39.760,0:13:43.360
available. And then utilities in other
0:13:41.519,0:13:45.920
places are like that works great, I'll
0:13:43.360,0:13:48.160
do it, too. Um, and the regulators in
0:13:45.920,0:13:50.320
other places also it's the same, right?
0:13:48.160,0:13:51.839
So they they look at successes in in one
0:13:50.320,0:13:53.279
jurisdiction and they think, "Oh gosh,
0:13:51.839,0:13:55.600
we should do that here with our
0:13:53.279,0:13:57.839
utilities." And so there's a lot of
0:13:55.600,0:13:59.199
information sharing, but also because
0:13:57.839,0:14:01.120
they're monopolies, because they're all
0:13:59.199,0:14:03.519
regulated really differently, it also
0:14:01.120,0:14:06.000
means that you have to go time and time
0:14:03.519,0:14:08.240
again to regulators, to the utilities to
0:14:06.000,0:14:10.880
understand what's their business model
0:14:08.240,0:14:12.399
because that will also impact what they
0:14:10.880,0:14:13.600
ultimately want to do. So how are they
0:14:12.399,0:14:15.279
regulated? How are they making money?
0:14:13.600,0:14:17.920
What are their goals in terms of load
0:14:15.279,0:14:20.399
flexibility or demand management? and
0:14:17.920,0:14:23.199
then to a certain extent kind of tailor
0:14:20.399,0:14:25.600
some of the programmatic approaches to
0:14:23.199,0:14:27.519
what those requirements are. So
0:14:25.600,0:14:30.160
definitely pros and cons to an industry
0:14:27.519,0:14:32.040
that is so fragmented but also so open
0:14:30.160,0:14:34.480
to sharing
0:14:32.040,0:14:36.560
information.
0:15:03.279,0:15:09.120
Can you tell our audience a success
0:15:06.639,0:15:11.600
story? Let's say example of the utility
0:15:09.120,0:15:15.839
you worked with where the results were
0:15:11.600,0:15:18.199
especially exciting. Yeah. Uh we are
0:15:15.839,0:15:21.440
working with Puget Sound Energy in
0:15:18.199,0:15:22.440
Washington. So two years ago now the
0:15:21.440,0:15:25.519
Washington
0:15:22.440,0:15:29.519
legislature mandated that I think it's
0:15:25.519,0:15:32.639
10% of the peak load in the PSE
0:15:29.519,0:15:35.600
territory had to be served by load
0:15:32.639,0:15:37.519
flexibility. And so we secured a
0:15:35.600,0:15:39.760
contract with them to do what I will
0:15:37.519,0:15:41.440
call a true virtual power plant unlike
0:15:39.760,0:15:44.240
traditional demand response program
0:15:41.440,0:15:46.880
which is you know sometimes single asset
0:15:44.240,0:15:50.000
like smart thermostats and paid you know
0:15:46.880,0:15:52.800
customers get $25 for participating
0:15:50.000,0:15:54.639
every year. VPPs are paid on a per
0:15:52.800,0:15:56.720
megawatt basis and lots of different
0:15:54.639,0:15:59.120
devices. So oftentimes, they're not
0:15:56.720,0:16:01.040
always, customers uh are earning pay for
0:15:59.120,0:16:03.279
performance incentives. But anyhow,
0:16:01.040,0:16:05.320
point being, so it's a it's a big VPP
0:16:03.279,0:16:07.600
program, lots of different kinds of
0:16:05.320,0:16:09.600
devices, and both residential and
0:16:07.600,0:16:12.959
business customers, and we have grown
0:16:09.600,0:16:16.160
that to almost 80 megigawatts this year.
0:16:12.959,0:16:17.680
So that is growing super duper quickly.
0:16:16.160,0:16:19.680
You know, it's more than doubled in size
0:16:17.680,0:16:21.519
kind of year-over-year. And it's such a
0:16:19.680,0:16:23.440
great model because you're seeing a lot
0:16:21.519,0:16:26.079
more customer engagement. you're seeing
0:16:23.440,0:16:28.000
more cost-effective use of resources and
0:16:26.079,0:16:29.920
we are beginning to see other states
0:16:28.000,0:16:32.959
adopt this as well. So just this past
0:16:29.920,0:16:36.079
week actually uh in V Virginia they
0:16:32.959,0:16:38.320
passed a mandate for a VPP there. So
0:16:36.079,0:16:41.040
it's great to see that you know we've
0:16:38.320,0:16:43.600
been successful with this VPP model with
0:16:41.040,0:16:45.600
PSE and now other you know other states
0:16:43.600,0:16:47.120
are really taking note um and adopting
0:16:45.600,0:16:49.680
them as well. And the other thing that I
0:16:47.120,0:16:52.320
will say that PSE and we have another
0:16:49.680,0:16:54.399
client uh called Alliant that's in Iowa
0:16:52.320,0:16:56.160
and Wisconsin. One of the things that
0:16:54.399,0:16:59.199
they're doing in a really interesting
0:16:56.160,0:17:03.680
way is rethinking the resources that
0:16:59.199,0:17:06.000
they have with their customer programs
0:17:03.680,0:17:08.720
so that they can be designed in a way
0:17:06.000,0:17:11.360
that more closely matches the way that
0:17:08.720,0:17:14.240
their supply desk procures resourcing
0:17:11.360,0:17:16.400
which I realize is a little esoteric but
0:17:14.240,0:17:18.720
just allow me. So if you have your your
0:17:16.400,0:17:20.079
traditional supply desk operator,
0:17:18.720,0:17:22.079
they're thinking about their base load
0:17:20.079,0:17:24.160
resource, maybe nuclear, maybe, you
0:17:22.079,0:17:26.640
know, always on coal. Their mid-tier
0:17:24.160,0:17:29.120
resources that kind of go up and down
0:17:26.640,0:17:30.960
every day depending on the way that load
0:17:29.120,0:17:32.480
load looks and the weather looks on the
0:17:30.960,0:17:35.440
grid. And then you have these peaking
0:17:32.480,0:17:37.679
resources that are typically gas,
0:17:35.440,0:17:40.640
sometimes now batteries, sometimes
0:17:37.679,0:17:42.160
demand response. But so we have worked
0:17:40.640,0:17:45.039
to come up with this concept called the
0:17:42.160,0:17:46.799
demand stack which is reframing the
0:17:45.039,0:17:49.200
resources that they have so that they
0:17:46.799,0:17:51.880
can match each of those supply side
0:17:49.200,0:17:54.559
resources. So as an example your base
0:17:51.880,0:17:56.400
load resources are the everyday
0:17:54.559,0:17:58.400
efficiency programs that your customers
0:17:56.400,0:18:00.640
have access to. So all of those are
0:17:58.400,0:18:03.360
electrons basically that are not being
0:18:00.640,0:18:04.880
consumed that correspond to the supply
0:18:03.360,0:18:06.799
what you would need to go and procure on
0:18:04.880,0:18:08.720
the supply side. And then you have
0:18:06.799,0:18:11.280
mid-tier resourcing that every single
0:18:08.720,0:18:12.640
day customers on time of use rates are
0:18:11.280,0:18:14.559
using a little bit more, a little bit
0:18:12.640,0:18:17.600
less depending on what's happening with
0:18:14.559,0:18:19.360
with their price signals. And then VPPs
0:18:17.600,0:18:21.440
or demand response as kind of the top
0:18:19.360,0:18:23.760
the top of the cake. But by coordinating
0:18:21.440,0:18:26.559
all of those resources, you're able to
0:18:23.760,0:18:28.320
make sure that they are truly aligned
0:18:26.559,0:18:29.720
with one another and complimentary as
0:18:28.320,0:18:32.960
opposed to
0:18:29.720,0:18:34.559
being sort of frictionfilled. So today a
0:18:32.960,0:18:36.240
lot of programs are designed separately
0:18:34.559,0:18:38.400
such that you're not maximizing the
0:18:36.240,0:18:40.160
benefit that you get from either the
0:18:38.400,0:18:42.640
customers participating or ultimately
0:18:40.160,0:18:45.200
the outputs. And so this demand stack is
0:18:42.640,0:18:47.520
a a new way of approaching approaching
0:18:45.200,0:18:49.440
planning so that it corresponds with
0:18:47.520,0:18:51.200
truly the resource that the utility
0:18:49.440,0:18:53.440
needs to provide to the grid. And from
0:18:51.200,0:18:56.160
your experience, what kind of things may
0:18:53.440,0:18:58.960
make these projects work well or hold
0:18:56.160,0:19:01.679
that back? It's so important to
0:18:58.960,0:19:04.080
recognize that this is an ecosystem
0:19:01.679,0:19:05.799
play. So at the end of the day, we're
0:19:04.080,0:19:08.640
not going to be successful unless we
0:19:05.799,0:19:11.440
have the myriad of customers that need
0:19:08.640,0:19:13.760
to participate. But then beyond that,
0:19:11.440,0:19:15.679
all the different OEMs that provide the
0:19:13.760,0:19:17.840
devices that are saving energy and
0:19:15.679,0:19:20.080
shifting energy. So today, as an
0:19:17.840,0:19:22.080
example, we have over 65 different OEM
0:19:20.080,0:19:25.360
partners that we work with for these
0:19:22.080,0:19:27.480
programs. And that's that's the thing
0:19:25.360,0:19:29.840
that that enables them to really be
0:19:27.480,0:19:32.799
impactful. So recognizing you know
0:19:29.840,0:19:34.640
ecosystem is hugely important and then
0:19:32.799,0:19:36.640
also just making sure that the
0:19:34.640,0:19:39.200
regulators are on board um and are
0:19:36.640,0:19:41.520
informed about what you know what the
0:19:39.200,0:19:43.120
opportunity really is because I think
0:19:41.520,0:19:45.039
there's still especially in certain
0:19:43.120,0:19:46.799
corners of the world right now a lot of
0:19:45.039,0:19:49.280
a lot of debate a lot of you know
0:19:46.799,0:19:52.000
misinformation about what we need to do
0:19:49.280,0:19:54.640
to ensure the reliability of the grid.
0:19:52.000,0:19:57.720
And so really clearly making sure that
0:19:54.640,0:20:00.799
the you know the data the facts are are
0:19:57.720,0:20:02.400
understood and doing that in
0:20:00.799,0:20:04.240
collaboration with the clients that
0:20:02.400,0:20:06.320
we're serving is really important as
0:20:04.240,0:20:08.640
well. Let's go back to your role at at
0:20:06.320,0:20:10.960
Uplight to lead the growth team. What
0:20:08.640,0:20:13.039
does that mean in simple terms and how
0:20:10.960,0:20:15.440
does your team help move the business
0:20:13.039,0:20:18.480
forward? Yeah, I get to do all the fun
0:20:15.440,0:20:20.720
stuff. So my team is sales and marketing
0:20:18.480,0:20:22.559
and and partnerships in BD and all of
0:20:20.720,0:20:25.280
our market development and kind of
0:20:22.559,0:20:28.559
pre-sale stuff. So I get to sit very
0:20:25.280,0:20:30.559
squarely um at the intersection of the
0:20:28.559,0:20:32.960
ecosystem of partners and clients that
0:20:30.559,0:20:35.840
we have and then also you know making
0:20:32.960,0:20:37.440
sure that internally our products and
0:20:35.840,0:20:39.120
services are sort of keeping pace with
0:20:37.440,0:20:40.400
where the market is going and then
0:20:39.120,0:20:43.120
ultimately of course influencing that
0:20:40.400,0:20:45.039
market as well. So, I love that the
0:20:43.120,0:20:46.080
day-to-day, every single day looks a
0:20:45.039,0:20:48.559
little bit different. You know, whether
0:20:46.080,0:20:50.880
I'm doing a client meeting or going to a
0:20:48.559,0:20:52.960
conference or thinking through, you
0:20:50.880,0:20:55.360
know, new storytelling for the demand
0:20:52.960,0:20:57.280
stack, I'm always, you know, always
0:20:55.360,0:20:59.840
using different parts of my brain. And
0:20:57.280,0:21:03.200
the team that I work with is amazing.
0:20:59.840,0:21:05.200
Just such smart, nice people. So, it's
0:21:03.200,0:21:06.640
also just really fun to spend time, you
0:21:05.200,0:21:08.640
know, solving hard problems together
0:21:06.640,0:21:10.559
with them. Yeah. I can imagine that a
0:21:08.640,0:21:12.880
lot of your work involves turning ideas
0:21:10.559,0:21:14.799
into action. So, what's helped you and
0:21:12.880,0:21:16.640
your team get people aligned and moving
0:21:14.799,0:21:18.880
in the same direction when you're
0:21:16.640,0:21:22.080
working with a lot of different clients,
0:21:18.880,0:21:24.720
big clients? Um, it's such a good
0:21:22.080,0:21:27.200
question. I think one of my foundational
0:21:24.720,0:21:28.760
principles is always bias for action.
0:21:27.200,0:21:32.159
And
0:21:28.760,0:21:34.640
so, I think a lot of what I do is just
0:21:32.159,0:21:36.400
try to get people moving. And it's okay,
0:21:34.640,0:21:39.200
especially, you know, uplight is still
0:21:36.400,0:21:40.640
very much a startup, a scaleup. So the
0:21:39.200,0:21:42.240
most important thing for us is just to
0:21:40.640,0:21:44.880
get going. And we're not always going to
0:21:42.240,0:21:47.840
have these perfectly baked strategies,
0:21:44.880,0:21:51.200
but if we are moving, I also have great
0:21:47.840,0:21:53.480
faith in the team to evolve as we go.
0:21:51.200,0:21:56.320
And people because they are so
0:21:53.480,0:21:58.400
missiondriven also you know get excited
0:21:56.320,0:22:00.400
as we start to see success and so then
0:21:58.400,0:22:02.480
we refine you know refine and develop so
0:22:00.400,0:22:04.559
that the the things that we are doing
0:22:02.480,0:22:06.559
become more scalable over time and so
0:22:04.559,0:22:09.280
that that is really fun. We're actually
0:22:06.559,0:22:11.360
hosting next week maybe previously by
0:22:09.280,0:22:14.720
the time this airs but next week our our
0:22:11.360,0:22:16.400
customer conference and the conference
0:22:14.720,0:22:18.640
the first year I was at Uplight so this will
0:22:16.400,0:22:20.240
be my third one. It was just a little
0:22:18.640,0:22:21.760
chaotic at the end to pull things
0:22:20.240,0:22:23.200
together because everyone was so excited
0:22:21.760,0:22:25.600
about it, but we didn't have the right
0:22:23.200,0:22:27.280
kind of rhythms and cadence to do the
0:22:25.600,0:22:28.559
event planning and the content planning
0:22:27.280,0:22:31.120
in the way that we would have wanted.
0:22:28.559,0:22:33.080
And this year it's been so smooth,
0:22:31.120,0:22:35.520
right? We've tripled the size of the
0:22:33.080,0:22:38.000
conference more than that since uh since
0:22:35.520,0:22:39.919
the first year and everybody is just off
0:22:38.000,0:22:42.400
and running putting together uh their
0:22:39.919,0:22:44.880
slides and the panels are awesome. So
0:22:42.400,0:22:47.120
it's just you know testament to to the
0:22:44.880,0:22:49.520
team and to just over time kind of
0:22:47.120,0:22:52.159
refining as we are moving forward that
0:22:49.520,0:22:54.000
is producing really great results. So
0:22:52.159,0:22:57.120
you're learning by practice right
0:22:54.000,0:22:58.400
congrats 100% every day and when you're
0:22:57.120,0:23:01.120
focusing when you're choosing what to
0:22:58.400,0:23:02.880
focus on on new markets new partners
0:23:01.120,0:23:05.280
what do you look for it's a combination
0:23:02.880,0:23:07.280
of things so there's of course always
0:23:05.280,0:23:08.640
you can do a bunch of market assessment
0:23:07.280,0:23:10.559
to understand what's the size of the
0:23:08.640,0:23:13.280
market and I think that that is good
0:23:10.559,0:23:15.360
discipline. So an example, Uplight was
0:23:13.280,0:23:17.200
formed by a combination of a bunch of
0:23:15.360,0:23:19.120
companies all coming together. So eight
0:23:17.200,0:23:21.679
in total to date, startups got have
0:23:19.120,0:23:23.760
gotten mushed together to form Uplight.
0:23:21.679,0:23:25.520
And so the last the last one that we
0:23:23.760,0:23:28.159
acquired a little bit over a year ago
0:23:25.520,0:23:30.159
was a company called AutoGrid. And they
0:23:28.159,0:23:32.159
had really amazing capabilities that
0:23:30.159,0:23:33.840
were quite incremental and you know
0:23:32.159,0:23:35.840
distinct to the ones that we had. So it
0:23:33.840,0:23:38.640
was it was such a kind of perfect
0:23:35.840,0:23:40.480
combination of different capabilities.
0:23:38.640,0:23:42.720
Um, one of the things that also they
0:23:40.480,0:23:46.320
brought with them was a myriad of
0:23:42.720,0:23:49.280
international clients. And so part of
0:23:46.320,0:23:50.559
the integration process was let's take a
0:23:49.280,0:23:53.840
look at the market. Let's take a look at
0:23:50.559,0:23:55.200
this client. Do we think that the cost
0:23:53.840,0:23:57.760
that basically you know the juice is
0:23:55.200,0:24:00.240
worth a squeeze to invest here and grow
0:23:57.760,0:24:02.880
it? because it's often times not as
0:24:00.240,0:24:05.159
simple as you have this one client and
0:24:02.880,0:24:07.600
you can kind of keep and grow grow them
0:24:05.159,0:24:09.440
without broader infrastructure and
0:24:07.600,0:24:12.400
investment whether that's you know
0:24:09.440,0:24:14.799
localization of data or making sure that
0:24:12.400,0:24:16.640
you are participating in the right
0:24:14.799,0:24:18.480
conferences and regulatory proceedings
0:24:16.640,0:24:20.400
like all of those things really are
0:24:18.480,0:24:22.320
quite different from market to market so
0:24:20.400,0:24:24.159
I think it's always good you know good
0:24:22.320,0:24:26.320
discipline to look at what do we know
0:24:24.159,0:24:29.760
about the market size and then there's a
0:24:26.320,0:24:31.520
certain amount also of huge clients who
0:24:29.760,0:24:33.520
are deeply aligned and invested in what
0:24:31.520,0:24:35.440
it is that you are doing should take you
0:24:33.520,0:24:38.159
different places in the world um or into
0:24:35.440,0:24:40.240
new markets because ultimately that's
0:24:38.159,0:24:42.240
how you you know you prove out proof of
0:24:40.240,0:24:44.720
concepts and build things that then can
0:24:42.240,0:24:45.919
be replicated elsewhere as well. So I
0:24:44.720,0:24:48.080
also think it's really important to
0:24:45.919,0:24:49.919
recognize those good kind of anchor and
0:24:48.080,0:24:52.480
build around them. from your seat what's
0:24:49.919,0:24:54.240
changing in the utility world well at
0:24:52.480,0:24:56.880
the moment and over let's say the next
0:24:54.240,0:24:59.120
few years and what we should pay
0:24:56.880,0:25:01.039
attention to well I mean load growth is
0:24:59.120,0:25:03.039
the thing that really is driving
0:25:01.039,0:25:03.799
everybody right now so I think it's not
0:25:03.039,0:25:05.840
that
0:25:03.799,0:25:09.360
decarbonization doesn't matter anymore
0:25:05.840,0:25:12.000
obviously it it really does but I think
0:25:09.360,0:25:15.200
when I look at the utility industry when
0:25:12.000,0:25:17.600
I started at PG&E in 2010 the things that we
0:25:15.200,0:25:19.520
were doing on the customer program side
0:25:17.600,0:25:21.840
of things were because as a regulated
0:25:19.520,0:25:24.080
monopoly we had to help customers save
0:25:21.840,0:25:26.320
energy and manage their bills. And
0:25:24.080,0:25:28.080
California also even at that time had
0:25:26.320,0:25:30.799
renewable portfolio standards and they
0:25:28.080,0:25:33.279
were trying to push uh you know push the
0:25:30.799,0:25:36.559
use of more renewables less carbon
0:25:33.279,0:25:40.240
inensive generation and where that has
0:25:36.559,0:25:42.320
evolved now is it's not compliance
0:25:40.240,0:25:45.200
driven anymore. Utilities have to
0:25:42.320,0:25:46.480
grapple with increased costs both
0:25:45.200,0:25:48.159
because of load growth but then also
0:25:46.480,0:25:49.279
wildfires is something that you know we
0:25:48.159,0:25:51.840
haven't really talked about but they
0:25:49.279,0:25:53.760
have a tremendous impact on ultimately
0:25:51.840,0:25:55.679
the investment that's required in the
0:25:53.760,0:25:59.159
grid and the the costs that are getting
0:25:55.679,0:26:02.880
passed on to customers. So now utilities
0:25:59.159,0:26:05.120
are in a world where load is growing,
0:26:02.880,0:26:07.120
costs are increasing like crazy, and
0:26:05.120,0:26:08.480
they have to think differently about
0:26:07.120,0:26:10.559
just how they're operating their
0:26:08.480,0:26:13.279
business because the traditional model
0:26:10.559,0:26:15.279
that existed until basically now isn't
0:26:13.279,0:26:17.440
really going to serve them anymore. And
0:26:15.279,0:26:18.960
so it's it's a challenge for the
0:26:17.440,0:26:22.400
utilities themselves, but then of course
0:26:18.960,0:26:24.559
the regulators as well. So it is a very
0:26:22.400,0:26:26.240
interesting and exciting time and and
0:26:24.559,0:26:28.880
difficult time to be in the space
0:26:26.240,0:26:31.600
because moving from just single power
0:26:28.880,0:26:34.480
plants, one oneway flows of electrons to
0:26:31.600,0:26:36.159
much more birectional complex flows of
0:26:34.480,0:26:38.720
electrons, but then also the overlay of
0:26:36.159,0:26:40.000
the more extreme climate events too.
0:26:38.720,0:26:41.679
Like all of those things together just
0:26:40.000,0:26:43.600
make it a much more dynamic and
0:26:41.679,0:26:45.760
challenging environment to to operate
0:26:43.600,0:26:47.760
in. And well, let's finish this
0:26:45.760,0:26:50.320
conversation on a positive note. So what
0:26:47.760,0:26:53.520
gives you hope for energy about where
0:26:50.320,0:26:56.000
this work is headed? Yeah, I really
0:26:53.520,0:26:57.760
believe in the inevitability of
0:26:56.000,0:26:59.600
leveraging more DERs and more
0:26:57.760,0:27:02.640
renewables. If you look at the costs of
0:26:59.600,0:27:05.520
those things, they're just so much more
0:27:02.640,0:27:07.600
compelling competitive than kind of the
0:27:05.520,0:27:11.279
business as usual kinds of resources and
0:27:07.600,0:27:14.080
ways of doing things. So uh it is never
0:27:11.279,0:27:16.320
easy. I I always say that the status
0:27:14.080,0:27:19.279
status quo is the biggest competitor
0:27:16.320,0:27:21.600
that we have, but I really do feel like
0:27:19.279,0:27:23.720
there is no other way forward than to
0:27:21.600,0:27:26.880
figure out how to harness the power of
0:27:23.720,0:27:28.559
of know the customers business and and
0:27:26.880,0:27:31.200
residential as a crucial part of the
0:27:28.559,0:27:33.120
grid. So, I'm excited about that. Well,
0:27:31.200,0:27:34.880
love that. Thank you, Hannah. Thank you
0:27:33.120,0:27:36.880
for being our guest here on the Green New Perspective podcast. I'm delighted to be
0:27:36.880,0:27:40.440
here. Thanks so much.