Marleen Vogelaar of Shapeways on digital manufacturing, scaling hardware, VC pressure, what went wrong, and rebuilding after the 2024 bankruptcy firsthand.
About this episode
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In hardware, it's relatively easy to build something that works,
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but it's much harder to build something that lasts. This conversation is about that gap,
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why it exists, and what it takes to close it.
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Hello friends, you are watching the season number four of the Green New Perspective podcast and
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today we are talking about what it really takes to build and rebuild a hardware business. My guest
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is Marleen Vogelaar. She's a CEO and co-owner of Shapeways, a company that is actually a pioneer
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when we talk about 3D printing and digital manufacturing building physical products.
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I'm positively sure that this episode is going to challenge a lot of assumptions you've taken
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for granted. Watch the interview. Well, watch it if you're on YouTube, listen to it if you're on
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Spotify, and then tell us your thoughts in the comment section. Enjoy the conversation. Hello, Marleen, and welcome to the Green New Perspective podcast.
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Hi. Hi. Good morning. So, for our listeners who are discovering your story for the first time,
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how would you describe the journey that led you to found Shapeways, the company that we
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are going to talk about in this podcast, right? Well, that's been many moons ago,
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but u back in 2008, there was um uh you know, there was this thing about 3D printing and it was
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really quite magical. The idea that you could just make anything with help of 3D printing
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uh me and two other co-founders uh actually within a lifestyle incubator, Philips Electronics at the
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time, we ended up building consumer business ID around 3D printing. And so this was in 2008 when
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we went live and Shapeways at that moment in time was actually the world's first upload and print 3D
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printing service. So where nowadays it's actually quite normal to upload a 3D file, a cat file to a
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website and get a quote, we were back then the first one who did it and it was actually quite
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complex to build software that could check files and see if it was printable. But uh we went live
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and it was really focused. We really wanted back then consumers to be able to have access to 3D
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printing because that didn't really exist. It was incredibly expensive at the time. Uh
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it was also rather slow in service. And what we built was an ability for anybody who had 3D files
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on their computer to uh to get them physically into their hands. And so it was all about mass
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democratization at that moment in time. And then the whole 3D printing hype happened in ' 09, 10,
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11, 12. And we kind of rode along with that. We were part of creating the hype and rode along
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with it. You know, rising tide the soul boats and what the company does today. How has the
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mission evolved? Different company now. It's a very different company nowadays. Shapeways
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itself is not focused anymore on a consumer business. It is now a fully B2B business
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um that is focused on working with uh with digital native teams, engineering companies,
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hardware companies that are developing nextgen hardware. So they can be robots,
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drones, appliances, uh consumer tech. That space is de developing incredibly quickly
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uh under the influence of AI. Probably talk more about it later. And we do uh small uh small volume
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production uh for these type of companies uh not only on the prototyping side but specifically
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uh in the whole life cycle from prototyping to actually getting these things to market and
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um and uh and market production to uh to after service and uh to after service care. And so
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that's what we do nowadays. We still have a consumer side to shapeways but that is part of
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that is a sister company the company that we've bought which is Thangs.com which is kind of the
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contin continuation of the old shapeways mission where we really enable 3D designers to build a
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business around their uh around their designs and for consumers to find beautiful 3D files
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or 3D prints that they want to have and that is Thangs.com and how are these changes reflecting
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into your journey as a co-founder. Well, that is quite a story because I I actually when
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we started the company was the I was responsible for both finance and operations. Vapor is growing
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incredibly quick at that time. You know, we were part of the Sitegeist. I guess we probably created
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part of it as well, but people were really eager to get something that they had on their computer
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to get it into their hands. It could be anything. It could be a piece of jewelry, a piece of home
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decor, spare parts for something that they were repairing. It could be a train model that they
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want to paint later. It It was like literally everything. Most of the things that we were
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making at the time were like one piece at a time of like literally anything you can anything people
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can can think of. And so at that time I was really busy scaling the company, building a factory in
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the Netherlands where we originated from. But we actually had moved the company to New York City
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where I where where I still live. Build a factory here, build a big global vendor network, build
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all the automation around it to be able to deliver this and sustain this type of growth. And in 2014,
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I actually decided to leave uh the company quite heartbroken to be honest. We had worked with uh a
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number of uh you know VCs at that moment in time. there was just a massive discrepancy between what
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was good for the company long term and what was you know normal in the VC world to uh uh to aspire
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for and there were just different incentives there because for you know big venture capital company
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you're one of one of many portfolio companies and they need to push for massive growth and so we
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got massive investments millions and millions of dollars but those investments don't didn't always
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make sense because they're mostly you know our start market was a 3D printing hobbyists and that
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market is not the worldwide market of consumers yet and 3D printing wasn't really weather for
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the consumer market because the materials weren't there, the finishes weren't really quite there.
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So there was, you know, shapeways was, you know, at that moment in time was building a
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really beautiful business around these uh around these hobbyists and enabling them. But in order
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to create massive growth, which what a VC wants in order to get their return in their portfolio,
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it needed to scale really really big time. But we were not just a software company. We were
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actually making things and you can't go times a thousand in one year or whatever it has to be.
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So there were all these lofty goals that were not really not really possible. But in the meantime,
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we were actually building a really good company. And so that tension just became bigger and bigger
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that didn't make any sense. And I was like, this company is going to go bankrupt. I just
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never realized it took about seven years to do so until after I left. And so I left, I moved on. I
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ended up working in on demand manufacturing but in the clothing industry for about 10 years. And then
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um the company actually went public with a spec. It was basically a very complicated funding round
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in in my opinion, nothing else but that. And then the new leadership that was at Shapeways at
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the time, they um yeah, they created a business model that had too much cost for being public,
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way too much spending on on SGNA and investments in in pipe dreams that had nothing to do with
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the original business model. And so they sank the company two and a half years after going public.
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And that was last year in early July. And yeah, in the background a few months beforehand, I mean,
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everybody could see the company would go public, would go bankrupt if it wouldn't be sold. And my
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old team from the Netherlands reached back out. We got connected again and they were like, Marleen,
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we want to save this company. I'm like, absolutely hell yes, you should because there's too much, you
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know, there's too much great clients, there's too much vendors, there's too much employee employees.
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there's just the value created, the value that it has in the 3D printing world is really there.
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It just was, you know, it didn't make any sense uh that that it would go down because the core of the
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business model was actually really healthy. Mhm. Financially really healthy and that was that was
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easy to see and recognize. And then you know one thing led to another when uh we made a bid on the
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company before it went bankrupt but that was not accepted. Uh and I think that was a blessing in
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disguise in a way at least for the new business maybe not so much for other people involved with
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Shapeways at the time and early July of last year it went bankrupt and then about a whole good group
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of people in the Netherlands where the core of the culture and the core of the team was still
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very much alive and and the way of delivering a good product because that's what they were doing
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in in the in the Netherlands was still very much alive and next day everybody big group. People
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went back to work and now we're here and yeah, we saved the business. And what's the experience like
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walking back into a team that was ready to support you before anything was finalized? It was really,
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it was really wonderful. We got, you know, I still knew about 30ish% of the people from the
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old days and they were like, uh, oh, if Marleen is involved, you know, you can trust her, which
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is really sweet cuz I've been away for 10 years. So, cuz you know, we were talking and it's like,
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"Can you help?" I'm like, "Sure, I can help." And, you know, I was in a little bit of a
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transition myself. So, I was able to come in. I called one of my other old co-founders, Robert,
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and I knew he was also in transition. I said, "Robert, you want to do this again?" And he was
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like like this does this just didn't make any sense. And like, you know, the guy is inv
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you know, it was a double feel. It was a strange feeling because there was it was really good to
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come home again in a way. It is very satisfying to help retain as many jobs as you can and save
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you know the jobs of many people. You can't save them all. So people were very hurt and
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a lot of them by this and you know it was not my responsibility. I didn't cause that but you
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still feel that you know we're all humans. So it was it was a really exhilarating ride in a
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way. It was also very scary. There were a number of private equity companies, big private equity
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companies with deep pockets that wanted to buy it in much deeper pockets than we than we were
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able to organize through the investors that we uh had found to play out the fact that we had a team
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and we had the team support and they went for it. I there's a great amount of people that are part
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of this core team that we couldn't you know all of them we couldn't have missed them. So yeah,
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it felt really nice to be back to get that trust. Scary to get it from being able to first buy
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assets in Holland and then leveraging those assets in order to buy the American assets which is where
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the trademark was, which is where a lot of the IP was around software. Then uh you know in a period
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from in that early July in August we were up and running again selling to existing customers.
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They came back because they trusted the Antto Netherlands team. They came back because they
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love the quality. So, in early August, four weeks later, we were running again under a new silly
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name. It wasn't silly, but it was all a name, a name that we never, you know, we were hoping it
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wouldn't be a long-term name. And then, you know, as we built out the business in those months,
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then by December of uh last year of 24, we were able to buy the assets in the US back,
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which was the brand name and the IP. And with that, we were able to announce ourselves back into
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the world and and be shapeways again. And that's what happened. What was the silly name? Moneo.
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It's not silly, but it's like, you know, it was like manufacturing and new and kind of combined,
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you know. So, it was it's fine. It's it's still part, you know, it's still the legal name of
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our entity in the Netherlands. We hold it dear. It's it's part of our history now and, you know,
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and part of our Phoenix uh Phoenix story. And what would you say that this situation has taught you
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about leadership? the trust that was given to me you know even after having been away for 10 years
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that is quite amazing. Uh so that's my personal experience and that has also been really healing
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in a way for me because I left not because I didn't like the team. I left not because
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I didn't believe in the company. I left because I saw a disconnect between between the long-term
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future of the company and and where it was going under under a VC direction. And so the fact that
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after 10 years you know people that that trust is still there I thought it was really special
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and was personally healing for me. But I think the big lesson for me here is that the company culture
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itself uh and the people that uh that are making things happen dayto-day that if they believe in
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something I say like this is worthwhile fighting for everybody just started running. And so as a so
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from a leadership point of view this was more you know the five of us working together finding the
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you know everybody the right role it was it was kind of interesting but also letting the people
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in the team do what they needed to do because you know there's things that happened on the
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tech side I can never replicate it's impossible I was not able to do that but I worked with the
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trustees and I did the financing and you know like everybody had a role and letting everybody play
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that role was really important and especially with this new team. You know, we were a new team. One
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of them was an old co-founder. You know, one of them, two of them are people that I hired
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in the past over 10 years ago, and one of them I didn't even know, and we had to form a team. And
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what I've really learned in the last year is that uh you know, everybody put their egos aside. Um
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it doesn't really exist and wherever we needed to do things, we put the right person for that role.
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So, and so we've been actually quite fluid within uh within the within the team of
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moving tasks or responsibilities depending on where the right person fits at that moment in
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time and like hey if that's somebody else and it's not me great go do it and if it's
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uh you know and the other way around and I think that's that's been uh that's worked out really
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well and that sometimes gives confusion to the organization underneath like who's doing
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what and why but that's solidified now it's It's it's spanned out. Everybody now has their roles,
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but we're very remain very flexible and like making sure that we put the right person in the
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right place depending on where their talents are and displaying to those talents has for me been uh
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been really one of the bigger stories here. And during this rebuild, let's
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call it that way. Yeah. How did you determine what to keep, what to change, what to eliminate? Oh,
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that was actually quite simple. Yes. Because you know because we had the team we you know
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I I knew the business really well but I had been away for 10 years. So you need to have a little
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bit of you know you have to also fair you have to really depend on the team and the and the new co
0:15:40.960,0:15:45.760
founders there with you to tell you like what the real situation is. But basically Shape is spending
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too much money on being a public company. So there that cost like millions of dollars a year just all
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the regulations and the reporting that you need to do. And it makes no sense for a mid-sized
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company to be public because it takes, you know, it just kills your profit margins. So just making
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it private again makes the company already more profitable. Then the company had a very high
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SGNA with ridiculous management salaries and you have to have a salary that is congruent with the
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profitability of your company and you cannot take more than that. So that was easy. It's also play
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morals to be honest. Sorry. Yeah. And so that was like two very big portions of why the company was
0:16:24.800,0:16:29.920
not making money. And then there was actually a pipe dream which was a software development
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that was being done on something completely new that had nothing to do with uh with Shapeways
0:16:36.720,0:16:44.240
selling low volume production runs to industrial customers. It's about some yeah marketplace like
0:16:44.240,0:16:49.200
database for finding a factory or something. But there was like so much money being poured into
0:16:49.200,0:16:56.240
that in those last years before the bankruptcy. So that was sold off before the bankruptcy to another
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to another company. And so we had no longer the cost of that. We would have also just killed it.
0:17:01.120,0:17:07.680
Um and that's it. That's all we had to do. We're just we're just focusing on building, you know,
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doing low volume production for hardware teams that are building nextgen uh robots, appliances,
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and and and and any device under the sun. And we've just went back to the core and that's it.
0:17:20.560,0:17:26.320
That core business was a profitable model. It was a profitable model and it still is. So yeah. And
0:17:26.320,0:17:31.840
from from a brand perspective, how did you rethink communication, positioning or storytelling during
0:17:31.840,0:17:39.200
this turnaround? It was interesting because the um you know there was two things that
0:17:39.200,0:17:44.240
we've that we well there's a couple of things first of all in the general 3D printing market
0:17:44.240,0:17:49.840
um and also with our customers the majority were very positive about us restarting so especially
0:17:49.840,0:17:54.800
because the Anto the Netherlands team had a very good name had had a solid name around the quality
0:17:54.800,0:18:01.600
and reliability people were very helpful to have us restart so that part of the brand name was
0:18:01.600,0:18:06.240
still very much intact even though there was this bankruptcy and this kind of bull strategy like you
0:18:06.240,0:18:12.080
know money grabber whatever kind of feeling to it but in the 3D printing market people
0:18:12.080,0:18:18.240
like vendors customers you know other partners everybody quickly recognized who the core team
0:18:18.240,0:18:23.360
was bringing this back and everywhere people stepped up we still have former employees from
0:18:23.360,0:18:28.720
the last 18 years coming back and joining us again even though they might have been away five six or
0:18:28.720,0:18:35.040
10 years I mean it's really quite lovely But from a branding perspective, we said, "Okay, you know,
0:18:35.040,0:18:41.040
we're back to who we used to be. We're now focused on B2B on nextG hardware." What we did do is
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we did buy things, which at that moment in time was a 3D printing marketplace. We bought that in
0:18:46.640,0:18:52.240
December. Uh um well, actually a 3D file sharing marketplace, and we bought that in December of
0:18:52.240,0:18:58.320
24 as well. So, it was a busy month for me buying things. But you know there were about there were
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thousands and thousands of uh you know we had we had we had thousands and thousands of community
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members at Shapeways who were at that moment in time before the bankruptcy making a living selling
0:19:09.920,0:19:16.000
3D prints through the Shapeways platform because even though it had went B2B that old marketplace
0:19:16.000,0:19:20.880
that we had where consumers were active buying on Shapeways and where designers were active selling
0:19:20.880,0:19:27.040
on Shapeways 3D prints that marketplace still existed and with the bankruptcy that marketplace
0:19:27.040,0:19:32.160
disappeared because the trustee killed all of all the files in the models. So that was gone. But we
0:19:32.160,0:19:37.440
knew we had thousands of these designers that we wanted to give a new home and we knew we still
0:19:37.440,0:19:43.680
had like you know so many consumers coming to shapeways wanting to buy these type of uh uh these
0:19:43.680,0:19:49.280
types of products. So that's why we actually bought things to find a new home for these
0:19:49.280,0:19:55.120
designers. So thanks now is not only a 3D file sharing marketplace but also marketplace where
0:19:55.120,0:20:01.120
people can buy 3D prints that created by designers and so we've created a new home. So from a you
0:20:01.120,0:20:05.120
know from a marketing perspective we said okay you know we really wanted to find that home and
0:20:05.120,0:20:10.000
that's also how we've kind of introduced thanks to the to the old shape community. So this we're
0:20:10.000,0:20:15.440
really moving the the the the consumer community towards thanks and that's where you can be and
0:20:15.440,0:20:21.120
that's where your new home is there where you can find inspirating you know inspiring art inspiring
0:20:21.120,0:20:26.400
whatever your hobby might be you can find it all there and then shapeways we really are focusing in
0:20:26.400,0:20:31.520
in the last half year and being super duper clear like look we have a solid manufacturing business
0:20:31.520,0:20:36.480
here very intelligent software this is one of the things that we've built back in 2008 and we've
0:20:36.480,0:20:42.160
been constantly investing in in all those years. We run on very intelligent software that enable us
0:20:42.160,0:20:47.440
to really support these customers from the moment of prototype all the way till uh you know phase
0:20:47.440,0:20:51.920
out of the product and and and and specifically help them with this low volume manufacturing in
0:20:51.920,0:20:57.040
between and we do everything you know we do not only the 3D printing but we can you know we can
0:20:57.040,0:21:03.840
vapor smooth we can polish we can electroplate we can you know we do heat inserts so we can these
0:21:03.840,0:21:08.160
digital native teams that we normally work with they're often they don't have big manufacturing
0:21:08.160,0:21:13.920
facilities. So for us supplying them parts that are easy to assemble into the final product is
0:21:13.920,0:21:18.640
really something that we uh that we do and that we also try to highlight in our marketing. Now
0:21:18.640,0:21:22.880
when when you think about this next generation hardware, what does that mean to you and why
0:21:22.880,0:21:28.320
is this moment such an opportunity? Well, it's kind of insane. I saw a Twitter I saw a video
0:21:28.320,0:21:32.960
on Twitter the other week. There was like this 15year-old kid or 14. I don't remember exactly
0:21:32.960,0:21:39.760
to be honest, but he had made a protis like an arm because somebody had lost a piece of their
0:21:39.760,0:21:46.720
arm. Um, and he had hooked up the arm, you know, with some kind of neural connection and with AI
0:21:46.720,0:21:51.600
software and now it's like this functioning arm that the person can like, you know, steer with his
0:21:51.600,0:21:58.400
brain and it's just like how how does a 15year-old in his parents house make this? Yes, it's a very
0:21:58.400,0:22:04.720
smart kid obviously but but one of the reasons why this is possible is because hardware automation
0:22:04.720,0:22:09.280
has really progressed in the last 10 years and also come down in pricing on the other hand
0:22:09.280,0:22:15.440
you now have AI so coding and developing these products whether it's a 3D design where there's a
0:22:15.440,0:22:21.040
software that is needed to operate it all of that can go much quicker than even three or four years
0:22:21.040,0:22:27.360
ago so now you see this massive amount of new devices being built whether it's a cart that goes
0:22:27.360,0:22:34.160
on a train track, you know, and inspects uh uh inspects the uh the railroad for material fatigue
0:22:34.160,0:22:38.800
or whether it's a cart, you know, whether it's a drones in the air for nice shows about a football
0:22:38.800,0:22:45.600
stadium or it's a drone that inspects crops and and you know, for for crop health or whether
0:22:45.600,0:22:52.240
it's a really cool consumer tech product that uh that is very specialistic for like one particular
0:22:52.240,0:22:58.800
hobby. uh you know where the market size in that sense in the past before this transition with AI
0:22:58.800,0:23:04.320
was actually kind of too small to get it live you know and where the cost of of developing
0:23:04.320,0:23:09.840
these products was really really high and it would take years and big companies and now you have a
0:23:09.840,0:23:14.800
kit that's 15 year olds that can make something like that. So much smaller teams can do this.
0:23:14.800,0:23:20.000
Teams that are focused on a much smaller market and they can now bring it to market quickly at
0:23:20.000,0:23:26.960
a lower cost. And then with CNC and 3D printing, now you have ondemand manufacturing technologies
0:23:26.960,0:23:33.360
available that that are quick and don't require a massive upfront investment like injection molding
0:23:33.360,0:23:38.880
which is needed for big mass markets but it's not needed for these smaller markets. So all of these
0:23:38.880,0:23:45.440
things are coming together to make uh to give the right set of circumstances that so many new types
0:23:45.440,0:23:52.080
of devices, appliances, robots are being built that help people one way or one way or so that's
0:23:52.080,0:23:58.080
uh my answer there. And you mentioned that the early 3D printing industry was often framed as
0:23:58.080,0:24:04.960
we can make everything, right? So Oh yeah. Was the reality of the industry these days? Yeah. I mean
0:24:04.960,0:24:10.000
it's still kind of like that. There is, you know, 3D printing, it still has this magic if you're
0:24:10.000,0:24:14.560
not used to it, especially for consumers. The fact that you can hold something in your hand that just
0:24:14.560,0:24:19.120
came out a machine like that and you can create it. I mean, we had weird things, not weird things,
0:24:19.120,0:24:24.400
but like, you know, if a kid makes a drawing, you can actually 3D print that drawing now in 3D,
0:24:24.400,0:24:28.080
you know, with all the colors and everything. And then all of a sudden, the kid has that, you know,
0:24:28.080,0:24:33.040
in the in their in their bedroom. But from a marketing point of view, there was this whole like
0:24:33.040,0:24:39.360
era of magic in the early 2010. that still exists, but you got kind of this vague thing of like,
0:24:39.360,0:24:45.680
well, 3D printing can, you know, make can make prints for anybody, for anything. So
0:24:45.680,0:24:51.120
then people kind of don't know what to do with this. And industrial organizations, specifically
0:24:51.120,0:24:58.800
B2B customers still in their R&D and into in their product development life work, a lot of companies
0:24:58.800,0:25:04.960
still don't use 3D printing. It's not, you know, especially in bigger organizations, a lot of them
0:25:04.960,0:25:09.760
have not really adopted it fully or only partially yet. There's also like one person who uses it in
0:25:09.760,0:25:14.240
in an in a product development department, but not everybody else. And so then if you sell somebody
0:25:14.240,0:25:17.680
like, well, we can make everything for you that you want, like what does it actually really
0:25:17.680,0:25:24.160
mean? It doesn't mean anything anymore. And the industry is slowly waking up, but there's still
0:25:24.160,0:25:29.120
a lot of companies that are basically, you know, manufacturing for all or, you know, we can make
0:25:29.120,0:25:34.000
anything for anybody. There's still quite a few big companies that have slogans like that and it's
0:25:34.000,0:25:39.840
not very clear. So that's why we said okay you know our focus is really we just want to say okay
0:25:39.840,0:25:45.120
we focused on these nextg hardware companies that is our bread and butter. We can help them develop
0:25:45.120,0:25:50.080
their product more quickly, get it to market more quickly, deal with the quick iterations of new,
0:25:50.080,0:25:55.200
you know, of of new products come coming to market really quickly and help them with with
0:25:55.200,0:26:00.720
the after service. If parts need to be reprinted for things that have broken or anything like that,
0:26:00.720,0:26:05.680
we can do it. So, we're trying to be really way more specific uh on that and kind of move away.
0:26:05.680,0:26:11.200
We can do anything from anybody. And then thanks on its own is is of course the consumer brand.
0:26:11.200,0:26:17.200
And who is the ideal customer of Shapeways today? The ideal customer are these. So they're either
0:26:17.200,0:26:21.840
startups. So hardware startups. So we work with a lot of hardware startups. We work with a lot
0:26:21.840,0:26:26.720
of portfolio companies of VCs that that we have good relationships with. We also work with product
0:26:26.720,0:26:33.760
development companies of larger uh of corporates. But then we uh sorry we the product development
0:26:33.760,0:26:41.120
teams there. That's fair. And we uh we also work with let's say engineering firms who build product
0:26:41.120,0:26:45.440
for their clients and then and then their clients end up being you know our customers because they
0:26:45.440,0:26:49.120
come through us in this prototyping stage and then we end up doing the production for these
0:26:49.120,0:26:54.960
customers. But most of our customers are there for actually small startups or um medium-sized
0:26:54.960,0:27:00.320
businesses that have a very specific hardware application that they build. And on your website,
0:27:00.320,0:27:05.600
you said that Shapeways make smarter, more efficient choices that are also greener. What does
0:27:05.600,0:27:12.560
that look like inside operations? Well, first of all, we uh uh we work according to the ISO 14,000
0:27:12.560,0:27:17.760
standard. So, um we've been working according that for a long while, but we're getting certified
0:27:17.760,0:27:23.040
early next year because all of that, you know, disappeared with the bankruptcy. We're getting
0:27:23.040,0:27:27.040
all that back up and running. So, from operations point of view, you know, there's a couple of
0:27:27.040,0:27:30.800
things. is there's like what we do when we run our operations which is working according to those
0:27:30.800,0:27:36.000
standards working with uh with green power when we uh that we operate the factory with we're actually
0:27:36.000,0:27:40.240
moving into a new factory that will have solar so so those are kind some of the basis of how we
0:27:40.240,0:27:47.120
operate but then 3D printing on its own of course is interesting because you have no over supply you
0:27:47.120,0:27:52.960
make exactly what is needed and that doesn't sound like much but it is actually worth a lot there's a
0:27:52.960,0:27:59.440
lot of industries where there's at least 10 20 30% over supply of products. So just not making too
0:27:59.440,0:28:04.160
much is already that's that's the best thing you can do actually for the environment in
0:28:04.160,0:28:10.640
that sense. So besides uh working on not having that over supply we actually in the design
0:28:10.640,0:28:17.440
uh for the for the for the products we can do topology optimization so that we means that we
0:28:17.440,0:28:22.640
can make parts use less material and still be very strong because you can make calculations
0:28:22.640,0:28:28.800
around that. So you lose you use less material. They're still strong. They're lighter. So if you
0:28:28.800,0:28:34.240
think about applications in cars or airplanes and drones, that saves a lot of energy. So there's a
0:28:34.240,0:28:39.520
lot to do there with 3D printing around design and topology optimization. And the last thing I think
0:28:39.520,0:28:45.760
that's important there with 3D printing is that um is that with 3D printing, you can easily make
0:28:45.760,0:28:50.480
spare parts and keep a product going. We do that for a lot of cars and trucks. We do that for the
0:28:50.480,0:28:55.920
existing products that we have with our customers. So that means if a product can be used longer,
0:28:55.920,0:29:01.760
you don't have to invest in a new one that also takes, you know, CO2 and materials and whatnot.
0:29:01.760,0:29:07.760
So I think those are three main advantages of 3D printing other than saying, okay, let's use
0:29:07.760,0:29:11.360
a green material, which of course are things that we're working on. Uh, you know, on the on
0:29:11.360,0:29:17.120
the thank side, a lot of PLA is used that has pros and cons, but that's a polyactic acid that comes
0:29:17.120,0:29:23.920
from uh that comes from corn or other s bodderived sources. So for us from a process point of view we
0:29:23.920,0:29:31.760
work with ISO. We're looking towards using more bio biosourced uh uh polymers and also you know
0:29:31.760,0:29:37.360
our team is really one of the best teams in the world developing printing SLS parts selective
0:29:37.360,0:29:43.360
laser centering and we have the highest recycling rate in our industry. So that means that reusing
0:29:43.360,0:29:48.240
powder over and over again we have fully closed loop which is also unheard of and we're able to
0:29:48.240,0:29:53.040
do that because we study the power. We have some very smart people who know how to upcycle this and
0:29:53.040,0:29:57.680
therefore you know everything that we use we we hardly we we don't throw anything away. So
0:29:57.680,0:30:03.040
I think that that's pretty awesome from a from a green perspective. And what have you learned about
0:30:03.040,0:30:08.560
connecting sustainability with profitability in a let's say practical business first way? Because
0:30:08.560,0:30:15.040
that's something I often hear you know here on the podcast that most of the clients of companies
0:30:15.040,0:30:21.440
usually care about ROI more than being yeah you know their partners being green or them being
0:30:21.440,0:30:25.600
green themselves. I think it's been a little bit of outdated thinking to think like well if you go
0:30:25.600,0:30:30.080
green it has to cost money or something. I think it actually goes hand in hand to profitability and
0:30:30.080,0:30:34.960
being green because for us because you know think about it we have one of the I think we have the
0:30:34.960,0:30:40.640
highest recycling rate in the industry for SLS we don't throw any powder away which means that you
0:30:40.640,0:30:47.600
know for our cost of goods sold our material usage is actually really low so that saves us money and
0:30:47.600,0:30:52.880
that helps with our profitability you know so it's just it goes hand in hand there and even
0:30:52.880,0:30:58.240
with the topology optimizations for our customers if we can deliver lighter product that cost our
0:30:58.240,0:31:03.680
customer less in operation and their customers less in operations, they will come back to us. So
0:31:03.680,0:31:09.840
this whole thing that you know environment needs to necessarily clash with your RAI has never made
0:31:09.840,0:31:14.000
sense to me not in this business and not in the previous businesses that I've been in. I think
0:31:14.000,0:31:19.520
it's just common sense and many people see the real potential of digital manufacturing in the
0:31:19.520,0:31:25.360
applications. So what's the real real world uses excite you most right now? I love the fact that we
0:31:25.360,0:31:33.360
uh that we make uh for instance uh you know parts for a robot that drives around in a hospital that
0:31:33.360,0:31:39.040
basically delivers medicine from the pharmacy up to the floor where it needs to be for as you
0:31:39.040,0:31:43.920
all probably know there's a massive shortage of medical personnel especially nurses in the United
0:31:43.920,0:31:49.040
States and the fact that nurses can be you know uh can be supported like this so they have more
0:31:49.040,0:31:55.360
hands with the actual time with the patient I think that's an amazing application, you know,
0:31:55.360,0:32:00.800
makes me really proud to be part of that. But also things like custom knee braces that are,
0:32:00.800,0:32:05.040
you know, fully customized to the size of the patient's knee, you know, we do that kind of
0:32:05.040,0:32:09.280
work. That's an application that I that I really love. This is more around, you know,
0:32:09.280,0:32:13.760
making many of the same thing but slightly different, you know, fully custom. You know,
0:32:13.760,0:32:21.200
those things are are fun. Uh we help also a lot in training uh in in in training police with certain
0:32:21.200,0:32:26.640
products that we made. That also makes me kind of proud. What else you see? We we do a lot of work
0:32:26.640,0:32:32.640
for drones specifically in agriculture. So helping crops using less pesticides,
0:32:32.640,0:32:38.960
crops becoming healthier, creating a bigger yield. These are fun things to like supply into. Um yeah,
0:32:38.960,0:32:46.000
makes me proud. You're talking about excitement looking ahead to 2026 and beyond. What's next for
0:32:46.000,0:32:52.000
Shapeways? Well, what's next for Shapeways is next year Shapeways will move to a new facility that
0:32:52.000,0:32:58.000
uh that is much bigger than before. So, it will allow us to expand because we're growing really
0:32:58.000,0:33:02.400
quickly. We're doing well and we really need that space to expand. It also means that we will be
0:33:02.400,0:33:07.200
expanding into new and additional technologies on top of the ones that we currently have in house
0:33:07.200,0:33:11.680
because the way that we usually work is we we offer a lot of different 3D printing technologies
0:33:11.680,0:33:15.840
and there's a couple of core competencies that we have ourselves. go we take more in-house to
0:33:15.840,0:33:20.960
really be vertically integrated. So that is really big change for Shapeways that we're uh that we're
0:33:20.960,0:33:25.360
pushing for because that will allow us to uh to to go into more different production technologies
0:33:25.360,0:33:31.520
that we already offer. So that's the big thing on the Shapeway side and um for thanks we're uh
0:33:31.520,0:33:37.120
you know we're going to continue the platform to to let the existing community that we have there
0:33:37.120,0:33:42.640
really grow and be uh be more successful. We have so many designers there that are making a living
0:33:42.640,0:33:48.080
out of their 3D designs and I expect for next year that we can double or triple the amount of people
0:33:48.080,0:33:53.120
that um that can make a living out of 3D design. Oh, I have to check that website out. Yeah,
0:33:53.120,0:33:59.920
it sounds amazing. Marleen, we've come to the end of our podcast chat. So, my last question for you
0:33:59.920,0:34:05.360
is if people want to learn more about you and what you do, where can they get informed or get
0:34:05.360,0:34:10.720
in touch with you? Yeah, of course. Well, they can always go to shapeways.com and contact us through
0:34:10.720,0:34:16.000
the through the form there. There's a form online, a contact form. Reach out. You can also find me on
0:34:16.000,0:34:20.880
LinkedIn. So, send me a message there. My name is Marleen Vogelaar. I'm sure it'll be printed
0:34:20.880,0:34:25.040
somebody for anywhere who doesn't understand my Dutch pronunciation of my own name. I can't say
0:34:25.040,0:34:29.600
my last name. I'm okay with Marleen, but like my last name in English, I can't do it. Well, I kind
0:34:29.600,0:34:35.760
of refuse. Well, I have the same problem with my first name. So, yes. Well, a lot of, you know,
0:34:35.760,0:34:42.000
we all come from somewhere in America. A lot of us anyhow, we do. So, no, but find me on LinkedIn or
0:34:42.000,0:34:48.560
contact Shapeways through the forum or reach out, you know, reach out to my team of thanks. They are
0:34:48.560,0:34:53.680
of course on Instagram and my thank my thanks team is also on Discord. You know, if you'd like to be
0:34:53.680,0:35:00.720
part of a growing consumer and designer community of uh around 3D design, we'd be happy to hear and
0:35:00.720,0:35:06.720
and meet you there. Yeah. Well, I'm definitely going to join the Discord channel. Well, yes,
0:35:06.720,0:35:11.760
you're very welcome. Well, thank you, Marleen. This has been amazing. Thank you for being my
0:35:11.760,0:35:23.600
guest here at the podcast. You're welcome. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.